insulation

[bobhenry]

Since we're all talking about insulation, do people insulate the bottom of their teardrops? If so, how? Or do you just count the bed as the bottom insulation?

Thanks!

Ya ever noitce some of the folks in Florida , California and texas scoff at insulation.

We have been out at -15 wind chill I have said it a dozen times on this forum but I will say it again "This is when comfort is no longer important , survival is "

You are in Montana.. Unless you are planning a move to sunny Florida soon I would strongly suggest doing it.

I insulated my floor on the inside. The 2" of headroom I lost was not nearly as important as the comfort factor.

I placed 2 layers of 3/4 foam on the floor and topped with 7/16 osb and later added a carpet.

I am starting to think 2 plys of carpet padding and a good carpet remnant might be a good alternative.

In this pic you can see the floor layers .

[doug hodder]

Tim...I'm sure you can see that it all sort of depends on how/ where you camp. I've only been in mine down to 26 and some sleet/snow no extra heat other than me. I have an insulated ceiling, 1.5" styrofoam, none on the walls and none underneath other than a patch of thin carpeting under the mattress. The only condensation I got was on the glass, and most of the crank out windows are single paned anyway, so that's going to be tough to beat. The guys in the midwest with continual higher humidity have to deal with more issues than many of us out west. However, there is nothing worse than climbing into a clammy tear after a couple of days out. Doug

[claw73]

Bobhenry, it seems like you can always answer so many questions! I will continue asking about floor insulation in my thread so I don't hijack this one.

Thanks!

[bobhenry]

They say you learn from your mistakes......

so now you know my secret.......

a whole lot of screw ups .......

[perche]

I am wondering if sheep's wool (felted) would be suitable for insulating a trailer. I've used the styrofoam in parts of my house, and while it works, it's quite bulky for the R value.

I read this and it got me wondering:

Sheep's wool insulation

Wool insulation (sheep, not mineral wool) is considered one of the best (but most expensive) insulation options.

- R-value 10 - 15 percent higher than fiberglass
- moisture doesn't affect it's insulating abilities
- it is not a respiratory irritant
- is naturally flame retardant
- has excellent sound deadening qualities
- requires the least energy in production
- is mechanically bonded, no adhesives
- acts as a filter, traps toxic substances
- has a long life and can be reused
- can be composted

Borax may be used in wool insulation to discourage moths.

http://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles ... ation.html

I found a cheap source in PA for clean natural wool batts and played around with the stuff this past winter...slippers, oven mitts, mattresses. The felt, in about a half inch thickness, is very warm (supposedly cool in summer) and comfortable, retaining the airflow factor. I figure if the build is tight and seams are sealed there's not much chance of moisture penetration or moth invasion. It's fairly lightweight as well.

Do you think it might work or am I being too green here?

[Conestoga]

Do you think it might work or am I being too green here?

Never mind green, wool is a smart material. Been in use a loooong time.

I love wool. I'm considering making "soft paneling" from wool for the
interior walls and ceiling. These could be taken out to air dry or be
replaced with minimal effort.
I hadn't considered using wool as insulation in sandwich construction,
you've got me thinking and googling now.
My first thoughts were that to get good insulating value it would be heavy.
Dunno ...

Results of my first surfing expedition yielded a couple of companies
are selling rolls from 50mm (~2") thickness and up to 150mm.
http://us.sheepwoolinsulation.com/produ ... hnical.asp
http://www.woolbloc.co.nz/products.htm
http://www.latitudeinsulation.com/produ ... e/modules/

[perche]

I love wool. I'm considering making "soft paneling" from wool for the interior walls and ceiling. These could be taken out to air dry or be replaced with minimal effort.

Hi Conestoga. Yes, the good time proven yurt.

More research required to work out how they moth proofed those things...that would be my only concern with the soft paneling idea. Although maybe not such a concern if it's an interior cover. Several natural oils (lavender, eucalyptus) are supposed to repel moths so maybe a little sachet during the off season. Sprigs of lavender hung near doorways are supposed to work for repelling flies as well. Suppose it depends what you're cooking and when you last thought to refresh the potty...

Noticed you're in PA. To keep the source list in one thread, the place I got my bedding wool batts from in PA is West Earl Woolen Mills, no website, phone Elva at (717)859-2241. $6.40/lb batting as of fall 2009. Easy to make felt...just friction, dishsoap and hot water, air dry. Might be considerably cheaper if one only needs a teardrop's worth....

As far as I can work out, the advantage of styro/polystyrene is the added structural rigidity it would lend to a ply sandwich, which you wouldn't get with a wool filler. Not sure how much of a drawback this would be.

One thing I liked about the thought is that it may be possible to lay felt in between the spars (think that's the correct term for the framing pieces) and the interior skin, thereby (big perhaps) reducing the temperature conduction of screws and condensation on the interior wood when it's cold outside and warm inside. One could drill screws right through the warm wooly blanket. Would the wool become moist where it meets the screw? Maybe I need to do some test pieces...

On a slight tangent, had spent some time looking into non-toxic things to use in my home. Real (homemade) milk paint was something I played with. Smells sweet...lime and curdled milk (the lime completely neutralizes the honk of the soured milk). Supposed to be fairly durable in external applications because of the strength of the casein bonding but haven't tried it outside yet.

My little fellow has a few chemical sensitivities (chlorine is very noticeable), so anything questionable needs to be well aired...sometimes having a canary is a useful thing...

Edit: Forgot to say thanks for the links...Thanks!

[eamarquardt]

I've always said that if you could find a good "recycle" use for senior walkers, crutches, and the potty's on wheels you could get rich for they are available for practically zilch at garage sales.

Your "recylcing" of the old crutch is a great idea. In addition to a table legs crutches might be used for galley supports.

You have me thinking (again!).

Cheers,

Gus

[Engineer Guy]

I'll repost here some thoughts posted prior.

Energy you never lose you never have to replace. This is true, regardless of the cubic volume involved, even on the TD level.

So, while I'm of the personal opinion that R-13 would be pretty sweet, one can find on many websites suggested insulation values. Heat rises. So, TD ceiling insulation ideally should be ~2x wall insulation value. Floor insulation can be 'less'. Carpet might 'feel' OK, but the insulation value is nil. See here what we used in our super-insulated House over CAREFU::Y-installed R-19 Fiberglass. Astrofoil is 'Space Blanket' material, and it works by reflecting ~97% of Infrared radiation/heat back at cha.

http://www.astrofoil.net/

My own preference is PolyIso Insulation, since it's ~R-8/inch. I've lived in places with all sorts of insulation, but PolyIso rigid 'foam' holds up over time. Knowledgeable Posters on this site mention tearing apart old Trailers where Fiberglass has 'sunk' down in the walls, rendering upper parts of the walls insulation 'free'.

'Over' insulate. You won't be sorry. Here in CO, we can relate to the comments of the Poster from WY. Wind, especially, really sucks heat out of any space, including TDs. If a 'super-insulated' TD is 'too' warm, simply crack open a window.

[mcspin50]

I've just been pondering ways to build a Benroy with just 3/4" plywood walls (simple for my building abilities ). Having tent camped most of my life in Minnesota and other parts of northern US and Canada, I recall waking up with the inside of the tent "sweating" on us. I really don't relish the thought of waking up in a teardrop trailer with the walls covered in the "dew" of my night-long breathing! Is this something to worry about?
How about lining the 3/4" plywood with automobile headlining? I ordered samples from www.yourautotrim.com and it has a 3/16" foam base with 100% polyester fabric. Would that be enough to keep the edge off of the cold and dew off the walls? I know it depends how cold the nighttime temps are, but I sleep with my window cracked open all winter, so I kinda like the cold fresh air...just don't want to roll up against a cold, wet wall.
I really am intrigued with the idea of wool batts. I own a fiber arts store (spinning, weaving, knitting, etc.) so I'm well acquainted with felting wool. Hmmm, I could do an art piece...a mural on the walls with all the different colors of dyed wool.

Lil

[Engineer Guy]

Lil ~

The 'sweating' you 'enduring' was not a matter of insulation, but was due a lack thereof. That is, the temp and humidity 'differential' is what caused that sweating. Really different temp and humidity differences, when they 'meet' on thin layers, is where such sweating comes from. So, this-or-that automotive lining doesn't eliminate such sweating; insulation does [by separating this differentials from 'touching'].

When you super-insulate, these problems go away. This is because hot and cold, or humid and dry micro-environments, are not adjacent to each other to cause sweating.

The worst one will have to do in a super-insulated TD is crack open a window. That said, the heating and cooling requirements, as SlowCowboy confirms, really diminish.

[mcspin50]

Lil ~

The 'sweating' you 'enduring' was not a matter of insulation, but was due a lack thereof. That is, the temp and humidity 'differential' is what caused that sweating. Really different temp and humidity differences, when they 'meet' on thin layers, is where such sweating comes from. So, this-or-that automotive lining doesn't eliminate such sweating; insulation does [by separating this differentials from 'touching'].

When you super-insulate, these problems go away. This is because hot and cold, or humid and dry micro-environments, are not adjacent to each other to cause sweating.

The worst one will have to do in a super-insulated TD is crack open a window. That said, the heating and cooling requirements, as SlowCowboy confirms, really diminish.

So do you think a 3/4" plywood wall thickness isn't enough separation between inside/outside temps (e.g. if temps dip around freezing in the night) to prevent sweating on the walls? I'd be insulating both the ceiling and the floor on my tear. And I don't plan on doing a lot of winter camping ...except maybe to southern CA or AZ.

But then, come to think of it, I might have to worry about insulating for high temps as well!