Winter TTT, need help with skins, stickframe, cabinets, etc

[DavieBoot]

Hi forum, I'm new to posting here, but have done a lot of reading on the site. My boyfriend and I are trying to build a large TTT for use during the winter and we have a LOT of questions that we can't seem to find answers to(or more like, we've found lots of answers, but there are so many we aren't quite sure which answers to apply to our dilemmas) We're a bit freaked out about messing this up, we have a fairly tight budget for this. So, here's the deal:

We want to build a TTT for use in the winter.
We will be traveling/living out of the TTT for three months this winter.
We want it to be as light as possible given the size.
We want it to be as cheap as possible

Our frame is 7x10, here's our original picture, however we added a stringer from the front to back of the frame for stability, but basiclly this is it

Our goal for the interior is to get it something like the T@B, here's our layout

Our profile will be something like this:

We are building a subfloor for insulation, and are using 1/2" plywood for the bottom, a stick frame(I think it's 3/4x 2 maybe?) to stick the insulation into and will cover it with a layer of plywood on top. So, question #1 what thickness should we use for the top layer of the plywood? The frame will follow the shape of the trailer, so it should be pretty well supported. Can we use 1/2" for this?

Question #2 We are planning on building the walls with a sandwich construction method, using 1x1's as the supports. If we include enough supports can we use 1/8" plywood for the skins or will they be too flimsy?

Question #3 We plan on putting some cabinets in the kitchen area above the counter, do we have to re-enforce the frame beyond the plywood/spars? Or would the overall construction be strong enough to support the weight of the cabinets?

Question #4 We ski, a lot, the teardrop will probably be getting significant amounts snow accumulating on the roof throughout the winter. We'll try to clear the roof off if we are in the trailer, but if we are out skiing and it's dumping snow we aren't going to come in from skiing to clear off the roof. Will our general design be enough to support the weight of snow on the roof? Should we put a pole inside of the TTT for extra support?

That's all for questions right now, thanks so much for your help.
-Ashley(and Dave)

[bdosborn]

You need a Widget. Ron and Pamela lived in it while they skied all winter in Leadville.



Here's a link to a panorama of the Widget interior I stitched together, it's too large to post here. I really liked how they did their interior. Ron's a boat builder so the construction was top rate:

http://home.comcast.net/~bdosborn/Boxcar/WidgetInterior.jpg

Widget Plans

I would PM Ron and Pam with questions, their forum name is RPH.

Question #1 what thickness should we use for the top layer of the plywood? The frame will follow the shape of the trailer, so it should be pretty well supported. Can we use 1/2" for this?

1/2" is a little sketchy if you stand on it, even if its span rated. I had to add quite a bit of bracing to my 1/2" floor

Question #2 We are planning on building the walls with a sandwich construction method, using 1x1's as the supports. If we include enough supports can we use 1/8" plywood for the skins or will they be too flimsy?

I used 1/8" ply for the interior, 1/4" for the exterior with 1x2" framing. Its solid as sears so you could use the thinner materials for you walls.

Question #3 We plan on putting some cabinets in the kitchen area above the counter, do we have to re-enforce the frame beyond the plywood/spars? Or would the overall construction be strong enough to support the weight of the cabinets?

I would make sure the cabinets are screwed into a spar, top and bottom. You need to do more lurking if you don't know what a spar is..

Question #4 We ski, a lot, the teardrop will probably be getting significant amounts snow accumulating on the roof throughout the winter. We'll try to clear the roof off if we are in the trailer, but if we are out skiing and it's dumping snow we aren't going to come in from skiing to clear off the roof. Will our general design be enough to support the weight of snow on the roof? Should we put a pole inside of the TTT for extra support?

See the center support in the Widget. Its a table and roof support. They get plenty of snow in Leadville and Ron and Pam didn't have any issues...

Good luck!

Bruce

[dh]

Note how the side rails run front to back, and the frame is "extended" to make the wheel wells, this will be a lot stronger that than your pictured frame. Your pictured frame puts a lot of stress on the welds on the "sunk in" short frame members where the axle attaches. Also, a composite tongue may help more evenly distribute the weight over the front X-members.

[StandUpGuy]

Question. How do you live out of a small trailer in Winter for three months without means to shower or bath?

[CARS]

Question. How do you live out of a small trailer in Winter for three months without means to shower or bath?

As long as they keep to themselves they should do just fine...

[DavieBoot]

Thanks for the help everybody!

I wish we would have found the Widget plans earlier!

As for the frame, the guy who helped us weld it let us know about that flaw, so we placed two stringers down the outside of the frame to help shore up the weak spots. It's too dark to take a picture right now, but I'll add one in the AM. It's not perfect, and raises the body up, but we had already bought the metal/axle when the error was discovered. (We'll call that "boo-boo" #1..we've already had a couple more.) The little "boo-boos" are the reason I'm on here...you know when you are lost and don't want to ask for directions, and then a wife or girlfriend forces you to pull over and ask? It would be safe to say I'm forcing boyfriend to pull over and ask for directions.

As far as not showering goes, we're a couple of semi-reformed ski bums and have a good network of friends across the west. We plan on staying with friends when we can to grab a shower, but when we can't it's the old baby-wipe shower for us...also, I learned in my younger, more "bummy" days that it's pretty easy to "borrow" a shower in a hotel swimming pool locker room if need be.

[DavieBoot]

I have one more question(I actually have many, many more questions, but one more for right now)

We are going to be carrying a popup tent and some wooden ski racks with us(we'll be running ski demos at ski areas and need a tent to set up our demo"shop"). We would like to make a compartment inside of the teardrop that is accessed through the outside of the teardrop. We are going to have a Widget type setup, and are thinking that the area under the bed at the back of the trailer would be a great spot for this inside out cabinet. (this stuff may be heavy, but we'll make sure that the tongue weight/balance is okay)

The tent/racks will sometimes have a bit of snow on them when we put them away, so we realize that waterproofing this compartment is probably a good idea. SO the question is: what's the best way to waterproof this compartment? Should we add extra insulation to it to protect against the temp change/ possible condensation issues? Any thoughts/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
-Ashley

[dh]

I'd insulate the walls between the cabinet and cabin, leaving exterior cabinet walls un-insulated. Epoxy would be a good choice to waterproof the cabinet. I'd also make a drain so the water won't just sit there. Are you building the exterior door to the cabinet? Here, I can pick up used exterior compartment doors at all the RV dealers for about $35.

[bobhenry]

several things come to mind in this thread.......

1st I simply laid 5/8 osb on the frame of Chubby and built the shell. Later went inside and added 2 layers of blue foam and a final 7/16 osb top for the floor. It went quicker than trying to cut and glue bits and pieces to the underside.

2nd mobile home roof coating is super quick to apply and will fill and seal almost any gap. In my opinion it would make a great water proof covering for the storage locker. Another option would be the spray can bed liner.

3rd perhaps to help keep it dry and add a bit of humidity to the interior maybe you might concider a small electric heater being placed in the storage area. It could be vented with an intake and a small fan powered exhaust to bring the heat into the interior. There are 12 volt / 120 volt ac combo fans that would work on or off grid with an onboard battery.

[StandUpGuy]

...
As far as not showering goes, we're a couple of semi-reformed ski bums and have a good network of friends across the west. We plan on staying with friends when we can to grab a shower, but when we can't it's the old baby-wipe shower for us...also, I learned in my younger, more "bummy" days that it's pretty easy to "borrow" a shower in a hotel swimming pool locker room if need be.

I figured it was something like that. Anyway I was thinking if you wanted a "drip closet" that it was basically a shower. Was thinking double duty. Mooching off of friends is much better.

Hey you should be surprised I have not suggested toilet.

[Jim T]

Ashley and Dave,
Here is some things you might want to consider.
#1 Since you are going to put in a sub floor, you might consider using 1/4" or 3/8" ply on the bottom. All this is really doing is holding the insulation in, and ½" is pretty heavy duty for that. Also, leave the sub floor open until right at the last. It will be a good place to run wires, ect in addition to putting the insulation. With the money you save on the bottom layer, I would invest in some good quality ¾" plywood. It is not that much more expensive, and I think you will like the substantial feel that it gives you when you are walking on it. I put 5/8" T&G decking on my trailer, and have it cross braced underneath, and it still has quite a bit of give to it. Also, if you buy a good quality ply, then you can stain it and seal it for your floor.
2 Consider using 1x2s in the walls instead of 1x1s. I am not even sure if you can get 1x1s commercially. The 1x2s are much easier to hit when you are adding paneling, hanging cabinets, ect, and they will add stability to your walls. When cutting the frame around your curve, you will probably want to buy a 1x6, 1x12, ect so you can cut a 2" wide curved piece out of one board, instead of trying to piece together a bunch of 1x2s. I would be OK with 1/8" plywood on the inside (I would be really comfortable with ¼"), but I would be hesitant to use anything that thin on the outside. Think of all of the abuse the outside wall gets. My outside wall is 2-1/8 sheets covered by a paint on bed liner, and I can still dent the wall with just a little pressure.
3 You will actually find that a well built cabinet will actually stabilize your wall as much as your wall stabilizing the cabinet. A cabinet is really a stand alone structure, and when you screw it to the wall studs, or "spars", caulk it and paint or seal it the two together will add a lot of strength overall.
4 If you use 1x2s in the roof about every 12" and anchor them securely to the walls, it would help. It also depends on what material you use to cover the roof. The curve of the roof will give it some strength, but even so, with a 7' span and over a foot of snow, I would be concerned. Snow is deceiving, it looks so light and fluffy, but it can be very heavy stuff. Most of the time you will probably be OK, but in a heavy snow you might want to take that extra time to come back an clean the roof off.
I hope that helps, Jim

[StandUpGuy]

I really do not thing snow build up is a problem for weight in this case. The real issue with snow build up is the fact that melted snow (water) will be pooled up and in constant contact with the roof. I think an extremely impregnable roof is in order. I would use a rubber roof membrane just as home builders must do in cases of snow damning.

[DavieBoot]

Hey, guys, thanks so much for your responses. I have another question(yay!) It's time for us to buy windows and we found these

My question is, do you guys know of anybody offhand who has use recycled airstream windows? We don't plan on putting a metal skin on the TD, what do you think about painting the windows to match the color of the TD?

I tried to search the forums for info about airstream windows, but I ran into information overload. If anybody can think of a build where airstream windows were used please let me know. I would love to use these windows, but am not quite sure if it's possible to mount them on the TTT without having a major, major headache.

Thanks
Ashley

[DavieBoot]

Hey, guys, thanks so much for your responses. I have another question(yay!) It's time for us to buy windows and we found these

My question is, do you guys know of anybody offhand who has use recycled airstream windows? We don't plan on putting a metal skin on the TD, what do you think about painting the windows to match the color of the TD?

I tried to search the forums for info about airstream windows, but I ran into information overload. If anybody can think of a build where airstream windows were used please let me know. I would love to use these windows, but am not quite sure if it's possible to mount them on the TTT without having a major, major headache.

Thanks
Ashley