Tires for teardrops?

[Pottercounty]

All the science behind the why's of this subject is getting overly complicated.. Those who want to save money & risk safety, go ahead with your thoughts..you are right. Those who don't mind paying a little more & are safety conscience, go ahead with your thoughts, you are also right....

[bdosborn]

Oh boy, another tire thread!



Here's my tire saga

Tire failure linky

My trailer tires will be at max recommended pressure from now on but YMMV.

Bruce

[grant whipp]

Oh, my ... ...!

The trailer-tire vs. car-tire issue is a lot like the "recommended" tongue-weight issue ... at least, it seems so to me! First you have the new folks who just want to have/build a safe & enjoyable trailer ... then you have the experts who follow/parrot industry "standards & recommendations" ... and then you have the lifetime of been-there-done-that, real-world, seat-of-the-pants, hundreds-of-thousands-of-miles, practical experience people. Neither of the "industry standards' experts nor the practical experience people are particularly wrong ... just pick the one that feels & sounds most comfortable and practical for you and stick with it, while accepting and understanding that the other choice would have been just as fine!

Bottom lines are these four Top Rules of Trailering:
#! - Pay attention to your equipment and service as needed/required!
#2 - Pay attention to your equipment and service as needed/required!
#3 - Pay attention to your equipment and service as needed/required!
#4 - Never forget Rules 1-3 ...!

FWIW ... I've been running mid-grade automotive radials, inflated to no more than 20 psi, on all of my teardrops for over 27 years, and I have never ever had a problem ... no abnormal tire-wear, overheating, blowouts or other such tire faiure (never a flat, either, BTW!). When I found & purchased the wheels & tires for my Saturn Wagon back in '05, I got six of them ... two for the teardrop. I'm on my third set of tires on the car, but the tires on the trailer are still the '05 originals ... they're P245/45-17Rs, recommended tire pressure of 45 psi, but I only run 25 psi on the trailer (up from my normal 20 because they're so wide!) ... I take this trailer anywhere and everywhere I can take my car (and I take that thing to some unreal places, for a car!), and I load the crap out of it ...



That roof-rack is carrying two EZ-Ups, a full 20# bottle of propane, a roll of carpet, a market umbrella, a few pieces of firewood, and a mountain bike ... the ice chest is FULL ... the galley is packed ... and the cabin has three stuffed suitcases and several other items (I won't mention what was in the car ... ...!) ... hey, we were headed out on a two-week-plus adventure, what can I say!

I was a commercial driver for over 17 years, and I've been pulling trailers for almost all of my driving years ... I check my equipment at rest stops & gas stations and always monitor what both vehicles are telling me (visually, audibly, and by "feel"), always!

Anyway, the moral of all this is simply what I've already stated: "Neither of the 'industry standards' experts nor the practical experience people are particularly wrong ... just pick the one that feels & sounds most comfortable and practical for you and stick with it, while accepting and understanding that the other choice would have been just as fine!"

Happy & Safe Trailering, Everybody!

CHEERS!

Grant

[Jim Edgerly]

At the risk of keeping this thread going ad infinitum I will add the following in regards to tire PSI.

A) Tire over inflation should never be done because it distorts the tire tread resulting in reduced amount of tire in contact with the road which results in increased center tire tread wear and poorer braking as a result of less tire contact with the road. Over inflation can result in catastrophic tire failure.

B) Inflating to the sidewall stated maximum pressure will keep the tire in the shape that the tire manufacturer intended, resulting in maximum gas mileage, best tire wear, longest tire life, but a stiffer harsher ride. Catastrophic tire failure is usually not expected here.

C) Moderate under-inflation will slightly distort tire shape, resulting in less gas mileage, more tread wear, shorter tire life, but a more cushioned and comfortable ride may be expected. Catastrophic tire failure is usually not expected here.

D) Severe under-inflation should never be done because it greatly distorts the tire tread allowing the edge of the sidewall to come in contact with the road, greatly reduces gas mileage, greatly reduces tire life, poorest braking ability, and drastically reduces handling characteristics, Catastrophic tire failure is not unusual here.

When it comes to right vs wrong, A & D are wrong. B & C are both right. Moderate PSI variations within the "Safety Range" will affect your gas mileage, ride quality, and tire life. At lower PSI’s you'll get a softer ride but lower mileage and faster tread wear, however, where most ST tires are not designed to "wear out," but be replaced after 3-5 years, shorter tread wear/tire life may or may not be an issue with ST tires. Increases in tire PSI will result in a rougher ride but will also get you better gas mileage and longer tire life.

It is an individual preference where you draw the comfort/economy line, and as long as the PSI remains within the "Safety Range" then no option can really be considered wrong.

I refuse, and will not begin to consider, what defines "moderate" vs. "severe" when it comes to under-inflation.

[grant whipp]

Hey, grant just couros out of curisty what do you use the roll of carpet for when camping? just a dumb question.

I am problay over looking something ...

Hey, Slow!

It goes on the ground in the galley area, like a mat or ground-cover ... helps keep dust & dirt out of the food ... and it's a nice place for Kay to take her shoes off ... ...!

CHEERS!

[DragonFire]

Hey Grant...I bet you wish Jerry never sold that Grasshopper to me, huh! Look at the firestorm I started!!

And I, not knowing much of anything about teardrops, asked what I thought was a simple question. Sorry people got so worked about it, and I'm really sorry about that.

And at the end of all of this...unless you look at my tires at a gathering, you won't know what I decided.

I'm almost afraid to ask any more 'serious' questions...I might get banned!!


So....has anyone used "SunBlock for Tires" found at CW?

Sorry...just couldn't help myself.......

[grant whipp]

Hey Grant...I bet you wish Jerry never sold that Grasshopper to me, huh! .......

Actually, DF, I'm really glad that Grasshopper found such a good home ... and saved me from trying to figure out a way to buy it myself ... ...! At one time, I had this crazy idea to put together an teardrop museum ... but alas, lack of $$ and life changes have at least sidetracked that idea for quite a while (not that I'm complaining one little bit ... for the most part, my life is damn good right now ... ...!)

Do enjoy that trailer! Hope to see you & it at the 19th Dam Gathering next May 3-6, at Antlers RV Park & Campgrounds in Lakehead, CA, on the shores of Lake Shasta, just 25 mi. north of Redding.

Oh, yeah ... don't worry about the "firestorm" ... kind of comes with the territory 'round here ... ...!

CHEERS!

Grant

[Jim Edgerly]

Hey DragonFire,

Don't be sorry about people getting "worked up." We are passionate about our teardrops and more than willing to share "our version of what we believe to be the truth." If nobody shared their opinions and everybody did everything the same...well, all teardrops would look the same. You want that? Half the fun of this file is people exchanging differering opinions! You got more questions...bring 'em on!

[jstrubberg]

I have to call bull on the idea that a passenger rated tire can't handle the turning and backing on a teardrop. You turn your car in and out of parking spaces and streets all the time, and I am pretty sure you back up once in a while, too. All that with three to five times the weight of your teardrop sitting on them, too. Silly.

I think the worst thing we routinely do to tires is airing them up to that number on the sidewall. Anyone ever chalk-test their tires for tread pattern? It's an eye opener.

[Gary and Cheri]

As I stated earlier I plan on switching from trailer tires to fuel mizer tires on my tear. If my tow vehicle was either a Jeep or pick-up I would probably stay with the trailer tires and a better ability to off road, but my tow is a Jetta TDI Sportwagen with 8 inchs of ground clearance. Here in Wisconsin the mountains are shorter and the opportunity to off road is limited but the possibilities for great mileage abound.

I define off roading, for me, as not being on asphalt. I feel that the tires on the tear should reflect of the abilities of the tow. In my case it's a mileage thing and my tears tires need to enhance that ability.

Gary

[Jim Edgerly]

I will agree with you as far as turning and backing up a teardrop. Not too much stress put on the tires here...especially the backing up. You put what, maybe 100-200 yards per year at most backing up your teardrop...if you use it a lot?

I will disagree with the "three to five times the weight of your teardrop sitting on them" though, as that is a very common misconception, that I can't believe how many times gets repeated in so many threads. My teardrop weighs around 1200 lbs as best I can figure (have not had it on a scale yet). With 2 tires supporting it that is 600 pounds per tire. Now a car with 4 tires, each supporting 600 pounds would be a 2400 pound car. "3 to 5 times the weight" would put your car in at 7200 to 12000 pounds. That is one very heavy massive car in my book! A Cadillac Luxury Escalade SUV with massive 22x9" tires and a 6.2L V-8 weighs in at a whopping 5488 pounds curb weight, while a more normal mid-size SUV like the Chevy Traverse with 17" wheels weighs in at 4658 pounds curb weight. My car... a Subaru Impreza Outback Sport, weighing in with a curb weight of 3175 pounds, or 1.32 times the weight per tire of my teardrop. The beauty of teardrops is that you don't need a massive Hummer H-1 (discontinued in 2006, with a curb weight of 7200 pounds) to pull a teardrop. Just about any small car will do the job...and frequently does.

[Shadow Catcher]

In my on going search I encountered this survey

The Good Sam RV club recently released the results from a survey of RV owners on tire failure. From 17,000 respondents, the club was able to put together an interesting picture on a much-discussed subject.
If the survey is an accurate representation for the RVing community as a whole, a minority of us have suffered some sort of tire failure in the last three years: 26% of those responding said they'd had a tire failure, described as either a "blowout," "tread separation," "visible bubbles," or "other." Trailer owners had more problems--32% of owners, versus 19% of the motorized class.
We often wonder how much the age of a tire factors into a failure. Among all types of RVs, the majority of failures seems to occur when tires are between two and five years, accounting for 50% of failure rate. Motorhome drivers reported the highest failed tire age was more than five years (30%) while trailer owners noted their worst years were at 2 to 3 years (30%). In terms of miles run, trailer tires seem to come in for the least longevity: A whopping 71% of failures on trailer tires occurred within the first 10,000 miles. At that same mile factor, motorhomers reported only a 29% failure rate.
These motorhome versus trailer tire statistics are alarming. One immediately wonders if trailer owners are less likely to properly care for their rig's tires than motorhome folks. Since tire loading and inflation are definitely linked to tire longevity, the survey results were revealing. When it comes to knowing the fully loaded weight of their rigs, trailer owners were more likely to know their weight (75%) than motorhome owners (65%). And what about keeping tires inflated? Of those who checked their tire pressure daily, trailer owners exceeded motorhome owners by 30% to 24%; of those checking at least weekly, trailer owners again edged out motorhomers by 39 to 34 percent. Of those confessed they never checked tire pressure, 340 motorized owners should feel shamed, versus 170 trailer owners.
Are tires built for towable units simply not as good as motorhome tires? Are there other factors at play that seem to make the trailer crowd more likely to be stuck beside the road with a failed rubber donut? Perhaps the tire industry will take notice of the survey and begin a little investigation of their own.

[Jim Edgerly]

You probably expected replies with a post like this, so here is the first.

"26% of those responding said they'd had a tire failure, described as either a "blowout," "tread separation," "visible bubbles," or "other."" INCONCLUSIVE STATEMENT because all the facts are not known: 26% of those responding...which means that 1/4 of reported failures were a range of significant failures, including "other". 26% of those responding...if only 1 in 10,000 trailers had problems then 26% would be 1 in roughly 40,000 trailers had significant problems. If 1 in 20,000 then 26% is roughly 1 in 80,000 trailers.

"Among all types of RVs, the majority of failures seems to occur when tires are between two and five years, accounting for 50% of failure rate." INCONCLUSIVE STATEMENT because all the facts are not known: Are these passenger tires, light truck, or specialty trailer tires? What percentage were on trailers vs. motor homes? Since specialty trailer tires have a life of "3 to 5 years" before they should be replaced regardless of how they appear they 50% "over all" may not be that bad...especially if 95% of those that did fail were 5 years old.

"trailer owners noted their worst years were at 2 to 3 years (30%)" The majority of the failures (70%) were after 3 years...plus again, "of those responding." What percentage of total tires on the road does this represent? Considering a specialty trailer tire has a max life of 5 years then I would think the worst years are 4 to 5 where close to 70% of the failures occured...not 2 to 3 where only 30% occured.

"A whopping 71% of failures on trailer tires occurred within the first 10,000 miles" INCONCLUSIVE STATEMENT because all the facts are not known: If a person travels 1000 miles per year in their trailer then when they reach 5 years (the maximum expected life of trailer tire) they have only gone 5000 miles...well within the "first 10000 miles." The average mileage expectation of a trailer tire is 5,000 to 12,000 miles, so 71% failure within 10,000 should be expected.

Are tires built for towable units simply not as good as motorhome tires? INCONCLUSIVE QUESTION/statement: No where does it state what percentage of trailers were using specialty trailer tires vs. passenger car tires. If those "responding" in this forum are any indication then more people use passenger tires than trailer tires on their trailers so it is impossible to draw that conclusion within reason doubt.

Are there other factors at play that seem to make the trailer crowd more likely to be stuck beside the road with a failed rubber donut? AH YEAH: How about people using passenger tires or light truck tires instead of trailer tires on trailers? How about those who are running under lowered pressure to increase ride comfort at the expense of increased tire failure? How about RV tires wear out so owners replace them, vs. people taking "perfectly good looking" trailer tires with lots of tread left and throwing them away because they are 3-4 years old?

I hate to sound cynical, but when a survey is done it is done only on those who care to respond to the subject matter. The survey was done by Sam's Club...does it only represent tires that they sell or all major brands as well? Maybe the only real conclusion that can be drawn is that Sam's Clubs sells poor tires (but that is a totally inconclusive statement as well because a lot of facts are unknown).True research on the subject would take into account all data instead of a biased subset (I say bias because they are looking only at those who care to respond with problems vs ALL trailer/RV tires on the road. The survey could say that 100% of the respondents had tire failures, which is a true if misleading statement, because that's all they were looking at. Whereas maybe only .027% of ALL trailer/RV tires had failures. The statements made sound impressive, until you start really looking at what data those statements are made with.

Can you please post the link where this data was extracted from.

Appended 11/10/11: My apology for not knowing the difference between Sam's Club and Good Sam Club.

[bdosborn]

In my on going search I encountered this survey
< Snip>.

Thanks for posting this. Its the first survey I've seen on trailer and RV tires that wasn't done in a forum. Some may pooh-pooh it but the results mirror my own experience as well as what I've read on many different forums.

Bruce

[bdosborn]

<Snip>
I hate to sound cynical, but when a survey is done it is done only on those who care to respond to the subject matter. The survey was done by Sam's Club... <Snip>

The survey was done byGood Sam Club. They don't sell tires but they'll change them when your on the side of the road.

Bruce