Thrifty Alternatives ..Building Foam Campers

[eaglesdare]

the FOAM is ONLY attached to the wood floor by glue. period. no bolting. the floor wood is bolted to the frame. but the foam is only glued onto the floor. hence my fear that it "would/could/might" blow off. that is why i use the cinch straps, to make sure it is secured to the frame.

mike, there was plenty of glue. i was not skimpy on that part. ratkity will vouch for me on that one. full strenght tb on the foam then canvas. after that i diluted the glue and rolled that on top of the canvas. there is more than one coat there also. i made sure of the glue coverage. so i know that is not my problem.

but i keep going back to the cinch straps being my cause. i know when those straps are on i can not get my door locks to fit right. so i have to lock my doors prior to cinching. so my thinking is that those straps are pulling the foam inward on itself. causing the problem.

so i think what i might end up doing is removing the canvas altogether and start over? or just cut away the center canvas and reapply that only with overlapping on the sides. right now my sides are overlapping on the top. oh heck i am not sure what i will end up doing. must wait and check out the whole camper.

i like the idea of just stripping all canvas off and reapply new, as i was going to repaint it anyway. wonder if i can convice the tearjerkers to come back down for a modification weekend.

[GPW]

Eagle ... pulling all that canvas off is going to be a lot of work(and more money) , and won’t do a thing unless you solve the strap riddle ... Why did it happen in the first place ... ? It appears the straps compressed the foam and when released the foam stayed compressed but the skin stretched back tight again .. pulling away from the depressed area... = bubbles

If you’re still worried about your floor to wall attachment , why not take the time to add another reinforcing strip all around the bottom and onto the floor under ... and if you must use those straps , why not replace that contact area with a hard skin (thin ply) made to take the abuse ... we know how to make it waterproof and you could even cover over it with canvas and paint ... Lots Easier than re-covering, waaaay cheaper ... and you don’t have to provide Beer and cupcakes ...

And while you’re at it , get all those other little things done that you wanted .... camping season is not that far away ...

[crumbruiser]

Like Mike, I am wondering if there was something on the foam to cause the glue not to stick, like a thin layer of oil from the manufacturing process or maybe even from the natural oils on a persons hand. Before putting the glue on, did you happen to wipe the foam off with a degreaser or Dawn dish soap or anything? I'm just wondering cause I would like to get the root cause of the problem too.
Frank

[linuxmanxxx]

Like Mike, I am wondering if there was something on the foam to cause the glue not to stick, like a thin layer of oil from the manufacturing process or maybe even from the natural oils on a persons hand. Before putting the glue on, did you happen to wipe the foam off with a degreaser or Dawn dish soap or anything? I'm just wondering cause I would like to get the root cause of the problem too.
Frank

Lets review the fact that TB2 or TB3 both are very hard drying wood glues and not rated to glue foam. You have a hardening glue surface that is adhered to a basically flexible and quite brittle surface so failure is going to be a matter of time its just the nature of glueing a surface the glue is not made for and states it isn't for as well.

Now back to Mike's tests and what worked better than others. He had best success with a paint I believe and now I'm going to give some ideas of why that was. For something to bond to the foam and last long term you need a glue surface that isn't hard or brittle after drying but one that is flexible and adheres well to foam and won't eat it as well. Paint is a flexible usually latex based material that drys and stays flexible and has adhesion properties or it wouldn't ever stay on the walls we put it on. You see where I'm going with this? Paint would work for a decent amount of time and none of us can say how long that would be since this is only a year into this genre of build and nothing long term yet.

The lagging compound looks good because it is a glue and sealer in one and isn't expensive by any means but kinda difficult to just walk up and purchase. So I'm betting any really good long term exterior rated latex paint would work for many years but if you want one that will look the same 15 yrs from now vs year 1 I'd go with the lagging compound or a water based flexible glue that won't damage the foam to adhere the canvas to the foam. Once that is on and stuck properly you can then transition to anything on the outside surface and never have delamination problems.

I can't wait to see someone use the lagging and then see how smooth it sands and what kind of surface it can provide. Imagine if it sands smooth then the notion a foamy has to look cheap is out the window and its game on for the crowd who care about the end result of the looks department.

[GPW]

Steve ,one might take offense to the notion that Foamies look “cheapâ€

[eaglesdare]

now your thoughts about the melting foam with the fabric, this then takes the "anyone" can do it out of the picture. if it has to be a precise amount of something and done right, then i know that leaves me out.

[GPW]

Not to worry , probably too tricky for even me too ... Might take a good bit of experimenting .. Stinky too ...
Eagle just use the Paint this time as a glue ... Like xxx says , it’s Flexible ... best so far eh , locally available ... :thumbsup...
Did you examine the rest of the trailer ... like where the straps go ??? What about the sides ?

[Ratkity]

the FOAM is ONLY attached to the wood floor by glue. period. no bolting. the floor wood is bolted to the frame. but the foam is only glued onto the floor. hence my fear that it "would/could/might" blow off. that is why i use the cinch straps, to make sure it is secured to the frame.

mike, there was plenty of glue. i was not skimpy on that part. ratkity will vouch for me on that one. full strenght tb on the foam then canvas. after that i diluted the glue and rolled that on top of the canvas. there is more than one coat there also. i made sure of the glue coverage. so i know that is not my problem.

but i keep going back to the cinch straps being my cause. i know when those straps are on i can not get my door locks to fit right. so i have to lock my doors prior to cinching. so my thinking is that those straps are pulling the foam inward on itself. causing the problem.

so i think what i might end up doing is removing the canvas altogether and start over? or just cut away the center canvas and reapply that only with overlapping on the sides. right now my sides are overlapping on the top. oh heck i am not sure what i will end up doing. must wait and check out the whole camper.

i like the idea of just stripping all canvas off and reapply new, as i was going to repaint it anyway. wonder if i can convice the tearjerkers to come back down for a modification weekend.

I'm vouching for the copious amounts of glue! We had it oozing through the fabric. It also ended up on us, the ground, our shoes and yes, our hair!! LOL.

Hugs,
Ratkity

[linuxmanxxx]

You’re right , they’re so easy to fix... they never were intended to be Pretty works of trailer Art like everybody else makes , just Thrifty and Practical (hard tent)... so patching is OK !!!

Lol I just shortened your diatribe down to cheap Glen

For the record I don't see a problem with taking something like TB3 and going over it all again for hardness after having something else laminating the cloth to the foam. Make a harder shell as well as add another layer of waterproofing to the mix. Like a cheap water based type of epoxy job if the lagging compound turns out not to be very hard a surface.

[eaglesdare]

hey patricia, wanna come down march/april again and help to repair it?

[Blotto Bros]

OK, I just went out and walked around on the roof of my trailer to check for bubbles. I laminated canvas to a 1/4" wood substrate on my Vardo roof. I mixed a 50/50 tb2 and warm water slurry then stretched and tacked down the canvas (8oz) to the roof. Next I used a paint roller to apply the 50/50 mix over and through the canvas adhering it to the plywood. I gave it a full 24 hours to dry then went back over it with a 70/30 tb2 mix in the same manner. Another 24 hours dry time then 2 coats of elastomeric rubber roof coating.

NO bubbles or de-lamination of any kind. This roof flexes a good deal in the wind and I have walked on it several times this summer.

This leads me to a couple possible issues.

1. The foam does not allow any of the water in the tb2 to penetrate, therefore when the outer "crust" flashes over it seals some water under its skin and traps it between canvas and foam. Then we paint it and further reinforce the seal over the trapped moisture and make the problem worse. No problems arise until it gets bellow freezing and that moisture freezes, expands and breaks the bond between canvas and foam.

2. The foam and the canvas shell absorb heat from the sun at different rates and this problem is really just "oil canning" between the canvas and foam that results in a broken bond and de-lamination. This may be why we didn't see this problem until cold weather sets in. Could her nice RED paint job be playing into this? I wonder if we will see this on a foamie painted white?

I am leaning towards the trapped moisture issue...since my roof is a wooden substrate the excess moisture simply absorbed in instead of being trapped???

Perhaps I will try this theory on some scrap canvass and foam I have then put it into the freezer and see if it bubbles up.

[GPW]

Diatribe , Moi ??? We old retired folks living on SS tend to be er.... “Cheap" ...


Blotto , could be trapped moisture huh !!! Mine baked in the Hot summer sun for days before I painted over it , no bubbles , but then again , it doesn’t really get that Cold here... a poor test for real Winter regions ...

[eaglesdare]

that could be a reason. i know that tb2 dried, before the paint went on. however, could it be that maybe not all of it had dried? maybe, not sure we will ever know the real cause of this. but yes, we just happened to see it because the tarp came off the front end, and we have had colder weather.

but you do know we had cold weather when it was built and the first 1 or 2 trips were cold. maybe it just took some time and well maybe its a combination of the reasons.

ok, i am signing off for the night. Merry Christmas to all you foamies!

[linuxmanxxx]

Blotto since you tacked it and added elastomeric roof coating on top that might be enough weight alone to keep it from delaminating plus the roof coating has a lot of flex to it. You might have broken tb2 down underneath but have enough over it to keep the problem from ever showing plus your substrate isn't foam so gluing it to wood would in fact probably never completely break loose as tb on wood is the bomb indeed.

I have been thinking of trying a foamy hybrid per say and do a almost complete foam structure and use luan or panelling inside for the walls and inside sandwich and then a canvas skin outside but with blotto posting how good of results he had over wood and a roof coating, might just go luan with canvas cover on the skin as well. Luan would add about 200 lbs to the overall weight but would give the structure a lot more rigidity and the weight would make it ride a little better on the road as these trailers just bounce like crazy with little load on them.

[GPW]

Eagle , I still vote for strap damage ... unless you have bubbles elsewhere...

Steve, that should be very Solid huh ? Like SIPs with a skin ...

Merry Christmas to everybody !!!!