12V battery questions

[Jacquie]

Hi,
As we have graduated from tent camping to 110AC/12V, what are truly useful 12V items? If we don't use anything other than our little RV lights and the fan how long can the battery last? We picked up our teardrop last week and have not plugged it into shore power yet. The lights when I switched them on are dim. Is that normal or just means we need to charge the battery? Also, we have an adapter for the 30 amp cord to plug into the 15 amp outlet. Can we charge the teardrop's battery with that?
Thanks!

[halfdome, Danny]

Sounds like your battery needs charging with the dim lights.
What you should do is install a Deltran Battery Tender so the batteries are charging when your hooked to shore power.
I have the 5 amp model.
Danny

[Jacquie]

Thank you! I'll check that out

[Jacquie]

Wait a second the teardrop has an inverter, does that do the same as the device you mentioned? I vaguely remember the salesperson saying it could do that. The paperwork was scant in terms of user guides.

[mikeschn]

Jacquie,

Nice looking teardrop you got there. But there's only 1 photo in your album. Could you add some more? Please!!!

Mike...

[48Rob]

An inverter gives you 120 volt power to run household items.
It draws power from your storage battery to do so.
If the inverter is left on, even when you aren't using it, it will continue to use power from your battery until the battery is run dead.
A converter, provides 12 volt power from a 120 volt source (a plug in at camp) some have a charge feature as well, but using a "smart" charger as Danny described will do a better job of charging, giving your battery much longer life, and can provide 12 volt power while it is charging.
I'm on year 6 with my batteries and the same 5 amp Deltran charger.

Rob

[deceiver]

I've got a little guy 6 wide. An older one. What the others said is good, i.e. charge the battery and the inverter giving you 110 volts. Also, if you little guy comes with regular light bulbs, consider switching over to LED lights like those they install in boats. The barely drain the battery over time and are pretty bright.

[Jacquie]

Thank you Rob for the clear explanation! I now get the difference between inverter and converter. The pamphlet that came with the teardrop says it's a WFCO ULTRA III Power Center. It has three modes: absorption, bulk, and float. So, it's a converter. It has circuit breakers installed too.

I learned from the Joe Kearney (salesperson) that the (Harris) batteries for 2012s are different than the ones they used to use for the Little Guy trailers. They're smaller and a dry cell(?). They now put them in the galley cabinet because people had been complaining of thefts and it lowered the tongue weight (90lbs). He also said it's not as powerful as the kind they used to install on the hitch. It's a good thing we bought this in the winter so we have time to learn about it before we go camping.

@Deceiver
The LED lights are definitely going to replace the bulbs in the RV lights. First I have to figure out how to get the covers off and which ones to get. I read some of the tips in Long, Long Honeymoon; however, the advice in this forum can't be beat.

[Jacquie]

Jacquie,

Nice looking teardrop you got there. But there's only 1 photo in your album. Could you add some more? Please!!!

Mike...

When the weather's more agreeable I will definitely want to post more. It's snowing today and then we're supposed to get a nice coating of ice. By next Wednesday it's supposed to be springlike, so I hope to be able to take some then. It was so windy and freezing the day we brought it home that we didn't stop to take pictures. How silly!

[working on it]

Another thing to consider: when drawing down a 12v battery to near it's limit, like running fans and lighting for hours at a time, and then recharging before the next use, eventually the lead plates will be covered with sulfates from the electro-chemical process. The sufur covered lead plates will become increasingly less able to store energy and to discharge same. To combat the increasing inefficiency of the storage of energy in the battery, the lead plates need to shed the sulfated coating, and put the sulfur back into solution (H2So4). I use an automatic charger on my racecar, a Battery-Minder, that de-sulphates the plates as it charges and maintains my dual batteries (6 years old). You need alot of power to start a 14 to 1 compression BBC engine, and without an alternator on board, I have to quick charge at medium amperage between rounds. If my Walmart batteries can stand up to this, then that's what i'm going to use to maintain my TTT deepcycle, between trips. I also recommend Schumacher maintainers, which I use on my 2 pickups, which only get used once or twice a month. Any charger will do for a refresh charge on the road, but pick a de-sulfating maintainer for at home.

[Shadow Catcher]

A VOM is your friend, you need to know if the converter is charging the battery and the voltage of the battery with no load or charging for four hours will tell you something about its condition. The best source I have found for battery and charging information is www.batteryfaq.org

[working on it]

I agree on always having a VOM around, but in a trailer, it seems most people already have a 12vdc-110vac inverter on board (if 12vdc is the preferred power source, at least). If so, then some of the new digital inverters have a voltage display built-in. If you just switch it on, with no load being drawn, then you can get a fairly accurate picture of your battery state of charge (accuracy depends on the battery's "rest" period , prior to the check). And then there's always the carbon-pile load tester, ha-ha.

[Shadow Catcher]

The LG web site is amazingly lacking in genuine information. From what I can glean else where the "dry cell" is an AGM, valve regulated wet cell lead acid. They appear to have had to use this because it is in the galley area and enclosed. This also means you can't replace it with a conventional deep cycle battery because it is not in a vented location.
It must be treated as a conventional lead acid/AGM i.e. trying to not discharge it below 50%. Some inverters do have a meter but if you look at the thread reply this is a WAFCO converter and no way to monitor the battery condition. I will be curious as to exactly what is in this trailer. If the voltage is too low i.e. 10.5V it is probably dead/permanently damaged, if it can still be recharged that needs to happen ASAP as freezing can hurt a discharged battery.
One of the advantages of an AGM is that they do not self discharge as quickly as a conventional Lead Acid and can be left off of a charger for months at a time.

[Jacquie]

The LG web site is amazingly lacking in genuine information. From what I can glean else where the "dry cell" is an AGM, valve regulated wet cell lead acid. They appear to have had to use this because it is in the galley area and enclosed. This also means you can't replace it with a conventional deep cycle battery because it is not in a vented location.
It must be treated as a conventional lead acid/AGM i.e. trying to not discharge it below 50%. Some inverters do have a meter but if you look at the thread reply this is a WAFCO converter and no way to monitor the battery condition. I will be curious as to exactly what is in this trailer. If the voltage is too low i.e. 10.5V it is probably dead/permanently damaged, if it can still be recharged that needs to happen ASAP as freezing can hurt a discharged battery.
One of the advantages of an AGM is that they do not self discharge as quickly as a conventional Lead Acid and can be left off of a charger for months at a time.

Hi Shadow Catcher,
You're right that there is no volt meter. Also we'd have to rewire to get a wet cell battery back out on the tongue for venting purposes. I'm a little worried about the battery as it's new to us, but I have no idea how much power is in it. I've had the lights on for less than a minute total. I know it's not as strong as the others and am starting to think it's not worth ever using for anything more than lights. I'll have to ask my husband to see what he has to check it out or see if we can get a cheap one to stick into a 12V outlet. The trailer comes with a three speed Fantastic Fan and two conventional RV lights in the cabin and one in the galley. The tail lights and I believe the exterior door lights are LED. I plan to find replacement LED bulbs for the RV lights. We have 12V outlets in the cabin and in the galley. Frankly I don't plan on buying 12V appliances. We have all our tent camping gear that uses propane or white gas. The lights are a fancy upgrade to us as is the fan. When we camp in ME on cold nights it will be nice to run a small ceramic electric heater using the shore power. I hope to not have a dead battery before we go camping.

[Shadow Catcher]

Jacquie
Wiring changes to move the battery to the tongue are not that difficult if you are at all handy, Two wires and a fuse from the converter forward to a battery box or tongue box. You need to find out what you have first, it may be perfectly adequate for what you need. Part of that equation needs to be conservation and LED lights are probably the first aspect.
Our teardrop is pretty electric intensive and includes a TV and stereo hooked up with a Sirius satellite receiver. you come to a good place where the owner will be lots of very good advice from people that are knowledgeable about this, and it is a learning experience as you can and have fun with your new Little Guy you'll find out what does and does not work well and what you want to add or leave home. One strong suggestion that I will make is that you come to some of the Tearjerkers gatherings and see what people have done with theirs. Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery, I have gotten many ideas from others both on this forum and at Tearjerker gatherings.