Build #2 - The Log Cabin

[M C Toyer]

Started my second build today, just about one year since I finished my first http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=50714

The 1947 Kit restoration is on hold for now http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=51843

This current project will be considerably larger and fully equipped for winter camping. I will be ready for the Thanksgiving gathering at Mineral Well SP.

The cabin will measure about 7 to 7-1/2' wide and 12" long. The actual trailer is somewhat longer and will have a large area on the tongue for a tool box, and an expanded metal platform for a generator, cargo, fire wood, etc. Not into ATVs but one would easily fit crossways.

The shape will be rectangular with a gable roof. The exterior, similar to my first build, will be 26 ga steel siding material roll formed to mimic actual logs as seen here:



It will have a rear entry and dropped floor down the center. Inside height will be 6-1/2" at the peak, outside from the ground up about 8'. It will be fully self contained with shower, toilet, kitchen sink, refrigerator/freezer, oven/range (probably Camp Chef) and a microwave. It will be set up for 12V DC, 110V AC (shore and/or onboard generator) and propane. I will provide for an air conditioner to be installed later near the top of the front wall. Haven't decided on a heat source yet - hoping to find a salvage propane furnace but for Mineral Wells will proabably just use an electric if one is even needed.

Here's the platform - a used boat trailer 18-1/2' long, 6' wide between the fender bottoms, 8' overall outside width. It has a 3500# straight axle and 15" wheels: I had previously planned on using a pop-up frame I already have, same size bed but much shorter tongue. The boat trailer is better suited for the height issues and balance.



Stripped of bunks, brackets, rollers, winch, etc:



Framing:



Sub-Floor:



Floor framing:



Center dropped walkway 28" wide - will extend full length of inside:



Drop frame:



Decking (mocked up for photo) will be approximately 27 to 30" wide on each side except wheel well cut-outs. The decking will sit between the wood cross members leaving about 2" for rigid foam insulation. Interior partitions will rest on the cross members.



The shower / toilet will be at the left rear. The holding tanks will require a cut-out in the subfloor.

The kitchen sink and countertop will be at left toward center with plumbing, freshwater tank and water heater underneath.

The oven/range setup will be at the right rear with a slide-out for cooking outside. The refrigerator will be at right toward center with a countertop in between it and the oven/range.

There will be wall mounted exhaust fans on each side of the back wall - one for shower moisture and the other for the stove. I'm planning for an inward opening door at the rear to swing toward the shower / toilet for addditional privacy. Depending on what I've got out back in my barn the door may have a fixed or operating window. I think I've got one with frosted or stained glass.

The front wall will have a full size murphy bed mounted crossways with a table / desk attached to the underside.

Past center on both sides will be benches with storage below. There will be room on either side of the bed for shelving / cabinets and possibly a small closet on one side for hanging garments. If not there then a closet will be part of the partitiion between the refrigerator and table. Short wide awning or hoppper windows will be on each side near the top of the wall (which will only be 5' high).

Even with the v-bottom frame of the trailer and drop floor the height there will be about 16" so a step would be helpful though not necessary. In order to use the slide out stove I'll probably build a deck across the whole back to fold up like a tailgate when traveling.

M C

[doug hodder]

Smart approach to using a boat trailer with little modification. Well done. Doug

[droid_ca]

I'd like to see more of this build it has a very good start

[M C Toyer]

I'm satisfied with the layout - I did extend the deck length to 13-1/2' to provide for a front well to receive the murphy bed when folded.

I pulled all the mocked-up members off and attached everything permanently.

Additional blocking between the steel crossmembers of the trailer: This shot was before I primed and repainted all the steel trailer frame. I had spot-primed where I cut-off the excess brackets and drilled holes.





Sub-floor and underlayment: I'm not a fan of sealing the underside of the floor. To me it creates a pan that will hold any leakage or overflow. Even with provisions for drainage it does not allow the material to dry naturally. I have used pressure treated lumber on the subfloor and framing. I also drilled a series of 3/4" drain holes along the bottom of the v. The underlayment is EDPM backed with fibreglass. Home Depot sells it as "Lay-Flat" for about $12 a square. It is not the same as the more expensive synthetic underlayment material. It is not initially self-adhesive like the ice dam membrane or flashing but will stick to the decking after a couple of days in the sun or heating with a blow-dryer. It will not curl like normal felt, is very resistant to tearing, and can withstand 6 months exposure on a roof application before the shingles are installed.



The underlayment butts at the bottom of the v with about a 1/4" gap, With my planned shower, toilet, sink, refirgerator, air conditioner, etc., I do not want to restrict any spillage or leakage. The subfloor will extend outside the steel frame rails another 8-10" when I finalize the width and that will also be covered with the underlayment.



The subfloor crossmembers were attached with 3/8" lag bolts, 6" and 8" long, 4 per each steel crossmember:



Additional support for the drop-down floor walkway: The drop ends 2 foot before the full deck. The murphy bed hinge mechanism will atttach to the front un-notched crossmember. The floor beyond will be about 2" higher than the subfloor , level, and provide a well for the bed when folded up.



3/4" open cell styrofoam: I've got a bunch of this in the barn. It will be layered 1-1/2" to 3-1/2" thick depending on the subfloor depth. The open cell will facilitate drainage if needed.



Drop down floor reinstalled: It is 3/4" plywood, 31" wide and 11-1/2' long. I left it overhang at the back for now to make sure it extends through the exterior wall to support the door threshold. That part will be flashed will metal for additional safeguard if the door is open in the rain. The left rear will be the shower/toilet and I will install the holding tanks and shower pan before insulating there.




Next I will build the bed frame then mock-up the walls and rafters to make sure everything works before I decide on the final width and heigth. Today the dogs want to go kayaking.

M C

[M C Toyer]

My trailer dimensions have not been finalized until I determine the clearances need for my Murphy bed so today I built the bedframe and set it temporarily in position. I also mocked up the side walls and roof.

This view is from the front of the trailer with the bed in the closed position. The vertical 2 x 4 represents the inner and outer wall surfaces including 1/4" paneling,1-1/2" insulation, 1/2" sheathing, 1-1/4 log siding for a total of 3-1/2." The roof will also be 3-1/2" thick so the metal stud just represents the bottom.

The mattress will be a standard full size. The bedframe is 1/2" plywood with 1x6 frame, overall measurement 78" x 58". The pivot point will be 16" from the drop floor, the same height as the benches along each wall.



This is the bed in the open position. There will be 3-1/2" clearance on each side. The front apron will be cut back on each end to clear the bench top but left full width across the center for support.



The white/blue box represents the bench. It will extend 12-15" beyond the front of the bed and serve as a nightstand.



Here the white/blue box on end represents the front end of the counter-top and sink. The white ice-chest represents the extension of the bench.



The white styrofoam represents the front and side interior walls. There is about 12" clearance to the bed in the open position which will be used for a closet the full width in the inside with sliding doors. Garments will hang flat against the wall.



Here the white styrofoam represents the 24" x 36" shower pan and the bucket the toilet. The green insulation represents the wall between the shower and sink countertop. The white/blue box represents the countertop height - the width will be 36" and run up to the bench.



Here the green insulation represents the 30" x 48" table top which will attach to the underside of the bed and have a bobhenry support leg. The benches will extend 12" to 15" beyond the table top for easier seating.



Interior height from drop floor to inside peak of the roof will be 74." At either side of the 28" wide drop floor the height will be 71" That will make the overall outside height 94" to 96."

The inside sidewall height is 56" from the elevated floor. The height from the center of the toilet seat to the inside of the roof is 48-52." Showering will be done from the sitting position. Accessing the toilet seat will be similar to the dinette benches; bend your knees and slide. I have a one-piece shower surround and will have an accordian shower door.

As it stands now the interior width is 84". With the bed closed the interior length will be 138" so overall 7' x 11-1/2.' The bed open or the bed closed with the table down will leave 90" of open walkable floor space so overall 7' x 7-1/2.'

As noted in the original post, the right side will have a refrigerator/freezer, a 36" wide countertop, and a 24" wide dropped countertop for the oven / range and be the same length is the toilet / shower / sink countertop on the left wall. There will be shelving over both countertops and the refrigerator.

The will be a shelf at the top of the closet on the front wall and the air conditioner will be mounted on the shelf in a slide-out cabinet; in for travel or not in use; out for use. The outside hatch of the cabinet will act as an awning when in use.

Short wide windows will be located near the top of each sidewall over the bed / table, plus an additional window in the door. I've reconsidered the vent fans; instead of the top of the rear gable on each side of the door they will be at the top rear of each wall under the eaves of the roof which will overhang the sideall 4"

M C

[KCStudly]

I like your layout; you did a very good job mocking it up and explaining it in the pictures, though I’m not sure I understand the porta-pot "bend and slide" deal; is access hindered or head room limited?

... 1/4" paneling, 2" insulation, 1/2" sheathing, 1-1/4 log siding for a total of ...

That adds up to 4 inches, by my math, not 3-1/2. Hope that doesn't screw you up too much.

The wall build up sounds very heavy to me. Can the log siding members double as exterior structure if you use a thin moisture barrier in place of the 1/2 sheathing? I realize that you are going for the look of the log siding, but wonder if it can be planed down lighter. Can you tell us more about the siding, or did I miss that part somewhere? …or is it a light weight thing like vinyl siding? (I must have missed something. )

Even if your TV can handle the extra weight, excess weight is just that, excess.

The layout with the Murphy bed and table looks very practical and unique.

[KCStudly]

See it now (again). Rolled steel siding. (doh on me!)

Yeah, I think if it were me, I would try to shed (pun intended in a good natured manner) some weight.

[M C Toyer]

I like your layout; you did a very good job mocking it up and explaining it in the pictures, though I’m not sure I understand the porta-pot "bend and slide" deal; is access hindered or head room limited?

While there is 74" standing room down the center of the trailer, due the the gable roof the ceiling height over the benches and the toilet will be about 64." With the benches you just back up, squat and slide; the same with the toilet but I will have a grab bar as it is a smaller "target". It will be a fully plumbed RV toilet rather than porta-pot so not moveable. The toilet sits in the shower pan but again with the limited ceiling height, showering will be done on a sitting position.

The wall build up sounds very heavy to me. Can the log siding members double as exterior structure if you use a thin moisture barrier in place of the 1/2 sheathing? Even if your TV can handle the extra weight, excess weight is just that, excess.

The front of the trailer will be higher than the tow vehicle and essentially flat. The sheathing serves the same purpose as in standard construction, to make the stick frame rigid. I could cut in a diagonal brace for that purpose, but: The siding has a contured foam backer to maintain the shape which requires a flat solid substrate. The siding is attached to the studs through the sheathing with truss head screws but some of the trim around the windows will not lay directly on a stud therefore you need the sheathing to hold those screws.

The preformed holes for attaching the siding are a horizontal slot about 3/4" wide and slighty larger than the screw shaft. 1/8" head space is left so the siding can expand and contract with temperature changes and flexing of the trailer frame and not buckle. There will be "tyvek" or similar house wrap membrane over the sheathing.

The layout with the Murphy bed and table looks very practical and unique.

I did consider the fairly common technique of a dinette table which drops to bench top level and then the cushions form the mattress but I also wanted to have a clear area if I needed neither the table or the bed. Also the Murphy bed will already be "made up" so no need to pull bedding out of a cabinet. If I don't want to make it up it will be out of sight. I'll probably use a cargo net to hold the bedding and mattress in place when closing.

M C

[KCStudly]

Thank you very much for the thorough reply.

I'll probably use a cargo net to hold the bedding and mattress in place when closing.

How about Velcro to hold the mattress? If you can find a good way to attach a border of Velcro around the sides and foot of bed, say a foot or 18 inches in from the edge, then just tucking the bedding under might hold the whole thing well enough.

My dad had a Murphy bed in his first apartment when he went out to WA and I don't remember needing a cargo net (but then, I don't remember how the mattress was attached either). What I'm trying to say is, with a little bit of research and thought, I think you can find a more convenient solution w/o having to install and remove a cargo net. $.02.

I like what you are doing and it is putting crazy thoughts in my mind of what I might have to do if the wife decides she would like camping with a little bit more convenience than I have planned/am building into TPCE.

Please build on!

[Junkboy999]

I have seen a murphy bed and it only had two , 2” straps holding the matress in place. The bed had a lip
all the way around it like in your pictures. If you have seatbelts ends on the straps. The short end can hang
off the end in front of the bed and you can just flip the long end of the straps over to the back wall.

Keep up the good work.

[mezmo]

Hi Again M C,

I replied to a post you did on a thread of mine in the General
section on the restored Aussie TD earlier tonight:

http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?p=970560#p970560

I forgot to mention that the Little Gem just used four regular
door hinges mounted on the end of the dinette seat boxes, two
per box, to be the Murphy bed "mechanism". Quite simple
and economical. I just saw in an earlier post of your's in this thread,
[I'm just now going through it again], that you mentioned a "Murphy
bed mechanism". I don't know if you have one already, but I
thought I'd mention this KISS approach for one since I know the
Murphy bed mechanisms they sell, with which you can make your
own Murphy bed with, are quite expensive. Four door hinges
are a lot cheaper than the mechanism and you could also use
a simple and economical pulley system to substitute for any
spring/gas strut/hydraulic lifting assist a commercially made
mechanism might have.

Also, I just recalled seeing some pics of a 1948 Alma that also
had a Murphy bed on the rear wall. It had a dinette table
attached to it, that folded up against it when it was time to
fold down the bed onto the dinette seats. It looks like they may
have used a short height full-width bulkhead 'wall', the same
height as the ends of the dinette seat boxes, and attached the
Murphy bed base to that with a long piano hinge:
[Just click on pics for a bit larger view.]

Closed:



Opened:



Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

P.S. That seat belt buckle suggestion seems like a very good and
KISS worthy idea. A junk yard should have them eh?

[M C Toyer]

Norm -

Thanks for your interest, suggestions, and all the examples to study.

I guess the first Murphy bed I saw was in a Dallas apartment my aunt lived in after WWII. When closed it matched an armorie in the single room so I assume it was a free standing piece of furniture as well rather than being attached to or built into the wall. The apartment was one of several in an older home that was built before closets were common.

I actually built a rudimentary one in California the sixties. We lived in a depression era motor court that was pending demolition. A church had purchased the property and was renting the units on a month to month basis. The bed took up most of the room so I ditched the frame and rigged a block and tackle to pull the box springs and mattress up against the wall so we had room for a couple of chairs.

My initial thought for my trailer was to hinge the bed along one wall with a bench on the opposite but that would have blocked the window when closed and did not work as well with the drop floor which was a later concept. The advantage was a larger drop down table top which could double as a desk. I plan to set up the trailer for extended periods for local research and interviews and the larger desk and underside of the bed would have been better for laying out my maps and aerial photos.

I am still considering limiting the length of the benches, making the table length the same as the bed and having a rolling office chair in the middle on the drop floor and foot space at the ends of the becnches for seating on either side of the chair. The advantage there is the shorter benches would allow for a tall shelf or cabinet that could be the backrest for the bench and provide a permanent place for my scanner and printer. Another thought would be to just attach a swivel chair top (fishing boat seat) instead of cushion on the benches. I guess I'll figure that out by more mock-ups after I get my kitchen and bath fixtures and cabinets set in place.

There will be a bulkhead at the pivot point which is about 16-18 inches from the far side of the bed frame. The bulkhead is directly over one of the trailer crossmembers. I probably only need two hinges placed about 1/3 of the way from each end of the bed at the front edge of the benches which terminate at the bulkhead. With a 6" foam mattress the bed should not be that hard to lift but if it proves to be I'll add a couple of short springs from an older car hood on the underside out of sight toward the front of the trailer.

I'm a bit confused by the second Alma photo at the bottom of your post. It looks as if the front wall folds down and the mattress is then pulled out and placed on the platform. I can't tell how it compensates for the three cross braces that look to be 2x4s. Perhaps there is a box spring in addition to the mattress and the braces function like slats on a normal bed frame.

I concur about the gaucho dinette cushions. It's a nuisance having to set up the bed then gather the bedding at night and then put everything away in the morning. Also the table top does not usually overhang the benches and you have to sit on the edge to reach your food and utensils or in my case lean on my elbows.

M C

[M C Toyer]

KC and Junkboy -

Thanks for the ideas. My thinking for the Murphy bed was to limit housekeeping chores and anything that contributes to that goal is helpful and welcome.

M C

[mezmo]

Hi MC,

By a big coincidence, I just came across some pics of
a 1955 Little Gem 15ft TT that has 7 photos of its
Murphy bed out of 21 total photos. It looks like they just
used a piece of 3/4 plywood as the bed base, and a couple tabs sewed
onto the side of the mattress that snapped onto the under edge
of the bed base to hold the mattress in place. It also looks
like they had just used a large strap hinge on each seat
dinette base end to mount the bed tray/base.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10741252 ... banner=pwa

'Hope they are useful,

I agree on that second Alma pic. I just assumed they had used
another plywood sheet that went on those 2x4 cross pieces that
was now missing.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

[droid_ca]

What do you think your trailer will weigh when finished???