The Salt Block! 7x12 V-Nose SA

[pirijodonny]

Good Morning!

I love this site! I have been reading for months now and still have a long was to go to make a dent in the available information! I though I had a new idea, but was I soooooo wrong! Thank you all already for the help you have given me.

(If you read my introduction in the newbie section, this comment is the same below)
My name is Donny and I have wanted a travel trailer for years! My wife and I have camped as newlyweds and continued with our kids. We have gone to many RV dealers and last year we thought we found the perfect trailer! It had a bunk for the kids, a kitchen, bathroom and dinette/queen bed. The weight was right for our SUV (2007 Hyundai Veracruz), but to be honest a little to close to the limit for my liking. The price was cheap, $9k., but we just couldn't justify a loan for something we feel is a luxury. After hashing over the finances and what we wanted to use it for we didn't pull the trigger.

I still wanted a trailer and was frustrated. The trailer would provide us more travel options and we would find it easier to just go out and camp more often. I also think it would reduce our traveling expenses. So we started talking more specifically of why we wanted a trailer.
1. Camping (some AC to not be miserable in the humid summers of the Midwest).
2. Travel with a comfy bed that is mine ( something that wouldn't require us to stay in a hotel and we could just pull over and sleep if needed).
3. We don't need a bathroom or shower. We will either not shower, because we are camping, or we will be at a campsite that offers toilets and showers. and my wife grew up with a truck camper and they never used the bathroom by family policy, so I figure we will be following that same policy. So, more proof that we don't need a bathroom. I am relieved about that!
4. We want a kitchen to cook meals whenever and wherever we want. This will keep us from getting the nasty blaghh feeling of road food and save money.


So we need:
Beds, kitchen, AC, and bike storage.

Itemizing our needs helped us realize, RV's/travel trailers are overkill. We still love looking at them and the awesome features, but have realized we would tow around about 30% of things we would never use. I also went and looked back at the trailer we were thinking of getting a year ago. Someone had owned it for a year and were selling it. I am glad I didn't buy it! The poor quality was already showing through!

After our realization that we couldn't afford a travel trailer and they were overkill I returned to my idea of converting a cargo trailer to a travel trailer. In my research I found this wonderful site/forum! I have hardly looked elsewhere since! My Harebrained idea wasn't so harebrained!

I am trying something new, here is the link to my project I have created with OneNote:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=CAA4C4FFC3EBB1E9!2713&authkey=!AL6CRWwkHdFBLU0

Please take a look and share your opinion. I have done a lot of home repair and basic remodeling, but this project is definitely going to present new experiences for me.

We plan (after getting our tax refund in Feb) to order our cargo trailer. This is the link to the trailer. We are going to order it with the three windows installed. 2 (15x30) on the wall over the axle and 1 smaller window over the future sink. (I can't install myself for $300 what the upgrade will cost).

http://www.vipertrailerworld.com/2016-arising-7-x-12-sa-v-nose-ramp-6-3-new-cargo-trailer-mo-i1800157

I do have some questions right of the the bat (Please look at the link to the project, first).

Plumbing:

For just a sink connected to a 2.5 gal electric water heater, do I need an accumulator? (The heater will be directly below the sink.)

Electrical:

Does the wire from the plugin on the trailer to the distribution box need to be 8 or 10 gauge. (max length of wire will be 7ft.

No worries, once I get started the posts will have fewer words and more photos!

Thanks everyone!

[Mike S]

Welcome! You've found a group of like minded individuals

I like your design. What kind of bikes? Pedal or motor?

Electric:
After looking at your proposed features, I'm not sure why you would want a 50 amp AC connection vs. 30 amp AC for a small trailer. I would seriously consider using RV appliances in favor of residential appliances. RV appliances run on propane or 12 volt DC, or 120VAC, have less current draw either way, and are lighter! This will reduce your reliance on AC power which allows for the potential of boondocking, or camping where there isn't full 50 amp service. RV refrigerators use significantly less power than 15 amps/120 volts. Mine uses 1-2 amps DC or less than 500 milliamps on AC. RV propane water heaters use no electric power. It looks like you have 15 amps DC planned for your lighting? Using 12volt LED lights, ALL of the lights in your trailer won't use more than 5 amps DC. Electric water pumps use around 7 amps DC, and less than 1 amp AC. A USB outlet uses 5 amps DC max. 50 amp service is more complex than 30 amp service. I'd go with 30 amp service and use rv appliances. In that case, 10 gauge wire should work. Either way you choose, 30 or 50, if you look at RV parts suppliers online, you can buy RV power cords for either, which come in standard wire sizes for the desired amperage. Obviously you'll have to decide on some kind of AC to DC converter/charger. There's lots of options in AC/DC conversion that you'll have to decide on based on your needs.

Plumbing:
I don't think you'd need an accumulator. Some new water pumps have a built in accumulator. So are you just heating the water for dishes? I don't think it's worth having a water heater for that. Why not increase you tank to 15 gallons and add an outdoor shower?

Good luck with your exciting project! Keep us up to date.

[CoventryKid]

Welcome!

I agree with Mike S. 30A service should be all you need.

I installed 30A when I converted our 7x16x7 aluminum trailer last year. We run 120v: fridge, hotplate, heater, laptop, printer, etc. and 12v: LED lights and water pump.

I installed a 15-gal fresh water tank during the build. After 6 months "on the road", I'm in the process of adding a 120v hot water heater for washing dishes, hair, etc. We did fine boiling the kettle for hot water; the hot water heater will make like just that much nicer.

Talking about nice, we use a porta-potti in our rig's small bathroom - my wife wouldn't be without this, nor would I. Means we can stop anywhere - simple luxury!

Good luck with your build. Don't hesitate to ask more questions!

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

I gotta say I love all your art work in One Note LOL

In my 7 x18 I only have a 15 amp 120 volt connection, thats good for 1800 watts.
My honda 2000 gen only goes to 2000 max.

I sure you could get by with a 30 Amp - 120 Volt ((3600 watts)) or max 20 amp - 240 volt connection ((4800 watts)) total load
those 30 amp & 50 amp extension cords COST 2 ARMS & 2 LEGS....if you get my drift.

Unless of course you plan to install a ray gun

cheers OTTCT

http://overthetopcargotrailer.blogspot.com/

small shot.png (214.64 KiB) Viewed 7112 times

my neighbors having some fun at halloween

[hankaye]

pirijodonny, Howdy;

My home is a 30' 5th wheel RV. My electric service is 30A. Does a fine job
of powering all of my electrical needs, That includes a 13,500 btu roof mounted
air conditioner. I can and do run a microwave while the A/C is on and the 'fridge
runs off of the 120vac side all the time (unless the local power co. drops off line).
Read your notes and from what I see this in the 45 amp version should do you just
fine, but that's only my opinion.
http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4000.html
One of the best features of the PD brand is their "Charge Wizard" which does the
Equalization Mode to help keep your batteries from the stratification & sulfation
process. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... ace_charge

hank

[wanabxtrm]

I agree 30 amp should be fine. Some inlets won't accept 8 g so pay attention to that. You may not need dedicated breakers for each item as you drew, take a look at your power draw calculations based on anticipated use, it's hard to run up high power draws in such a small space, except maybe power tools. Good luck, they're fun frustrating and rewarding projects.

[ywhic]

I did 30 amp on my conversion (which is in this section).

I bought a $25 30 amp outdoor 15' extension cord of EB and modded to work with my RV 30 amp input.. then a WFCO 35 amp power distribution box for $125 that charges my 12VDC battery and provides me with up to 5 AC circuits with breakers and 6 DC fused circuits in one spot..

A propane water heater is nice.. keep in mind pilot vs no pilot and how much room inside the trailer it will take up..

I did a Bosche 4 gallon 120VAC one for mine.. fits nice under counter.. get the newer water pumps they don't need an accumulator.. mine runs great at 50 psi.. and shut off when the water gets turned off and NO pulsing..

My interior lighting is all 12VDC at this point (4 lights) and the water pump is 12VDC also. My 'stove' is a dual butane/propane single burner gas type..

The fridge and water heater are 120VAC.. my heater is a Mr Heater 'Buddy' propane and does up to 9000 BTU max.. as will anything propane, get a CO2 meter/alarm..

[pirijodonny]

Thanks for the friendly welcome!

I knew I would get great ideas and advice!

Thanks Mike S, the help on what my draw on the led lighting and RV appliances is a great help. Boondocking would be wonderful and the RV appliances would be nice. I keep struggling with the initial cost of the RV appliances compared to the AC home appliance version. I keep hoping to find a salvage rv/camper I could get the appliances off of, but I haven't had any luck yet. I also worry about the salvage option by not really knowing if what I am getting is going to work. I would definitely only need a 30 AMP service if I went with RV appliances and it would simplify a lot in the area of wiring. As for hot water, the current plan only is for a sink to wash dishes. Outdoor shower could be nice....

CoventryKid, we have thought about the kettle for heating hot water and haven't thrown out that idea. The simple kettle and two 5 gallon blue jugs under the sink one fresh and one grey seems sooo easy, but would we wish we had done it differently? Are you changing for ease or was heating the water an extra step you grew tired of doing?

OTTCT- A ray gun would be awesome! back to the 50 amp system!

Hank: Thanks for the comparison, the AC unit was my question on needing the 50amp due to the fridge and microwave. Thanks for the link on the PD4000 and Battery info!

ywhic: I am getting lots of great ideas from your build. The cardboard templates are a preferred method for me too. Like the WFCO 35 Amp distribution box. Similar to what I was thinking.

Thanks again everybody! Keep it coming! You have already helped me firgure some things out and evaluate.

[Vedette]

30 amp plug and cord for teardrop to Converter.
Good Roads
Brian & Sandi

[Mike S]

There are lots of people on this forum using residential appliances and it works well for them. I didn't mean to completely down play the idea.

When I started my conversion project it happened that my father in law offered us his totalled truck camper... It was totalled because of water damage to the structure, but every appliance and system was working perfectly. As I disassembled the old camper I learned a lot about how RV systems worked. That industry has figured out a lot over the years and those appliances work well in mobile settings. But that's not to say its the only way to do it.

Anyway, keep us up to date with your project.

[ywhic]

Keep the words access and modular in your head when planning. Access to wiring and plumbing points. Modular for the same reason. My counter top is on top of 4 horizontal studs. I left gaps where they meet in case I need access to swing that side of the vnose inner wall out. Use standard size plumbing items and real wiring.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

I'm confused, everyone here keeps saying 30 amp service

BUT there is:

30 amp x 120 volts 3600 watts max

30 amp x 240 volts 7200 watts max

Which are we talking about

[ywhic]

I did 30 amp at 120vac. Which is standard travel trailer TT30 plug or twist lock 30 marine plug. Figure my mini fridge once running is less than 200 watts. The water heater is the big draw at like 13 amps. The window ac running is 4-5 amps. I have a switch for water heater circuit to only be on when I need it.

[crumvoc]

I like your thoughts on the proposed build. One thing you might consider... On my CT I originally set it up with a simple kitchen (sink, stove space, kitchen junk storage, food) inside the trailer. After camping in it a couple of times, I realized that I was constantly going in/out of the trailer to get to the outside camp stove, work table, etc. I also realized that I really did not want to actually cook much inside the trailer... Also, when you think about it, a kitchen in a small trailer takes up some of the best real estate inside. You have to have it oriented so that you can get to things, get in/out and it has to be arranged so that other things (bed/table/storage, etc) don’t interfere with the use of the kitchen.

So, I have revised my (10x6) CC to have a rear galley. Kitchen is out. This has significantly opened up the main interior space. I have some spots inside that I can use to set up a simple butane stove for morning coffee and will use a “pump” pot for a little water. Since you need the rear of the trailer for bike storage, I can think of a couple options. 1) store bikes inside the cabin when traveling. Or 2) create a sort of “fold down” kitchen in the rear compartment that would be “deployed” when the bikes are out.

Just my $.02 for your consideration. Enjoy your build. It can be a fun project to create something just right for you!

[Mike S]

I'm confused, everyone here keeps saying 30 amp service

BUT there is:

30 amp x 120 volts 3600 watts max

30 amp x 240 volts 7200 watts max

Which are we talking about

I didn't know there was such thing as 30 amp /240 RV service. It would be a heck of a mistake to plug a 30 amp RV cord into a 240v receptacle!

I thought only 50 amp service had 240 volts (120 x 2 hots) in the RV world. The OTTCT has 50 amp service right, being over the top and all