Alternative Heating

General Discussion about almost anything Teardrop or camping related

Alternative Heating

Postby Dahlia47 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:23 pm

I am looking for a different way to heat our camper. We have a small electric heater. It works great. It's a small space, so it heats very well. However, we don't always have a place to plug in at certain parks or places we go. My little solar panel won't power it. After 10 pm we have to turn off the generator. What alternative ways do you heat your camper?
Dahlia47
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:06 pm

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby saltydawg » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:26 pm

You have 3 options main options

diesel air heater
propex heater
water heater based heat

Diesel heaters work, but do have issues. They dont cycle they just turn down lower, they can in some situation over heat the trailer. They are cheap.
propex works great but pricey
water heater based heat. you need to have a water heater that you run in the winter.

couple other options
a buddy heater. they dump lots of moisture in the air.
oil lamp with a shade, but they can be smelly and do put out light.
Scott
Lost in Maryland
2021 just said to 2020, hold my beer and watch this.
saltydawg
500 Club
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:34 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby tony.latham » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:12 pm

We love our little propane Propex heater.

Image

But as Saltydawg mentioned, they are spendy.

You can read my Installation Post over here:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=72075&p=1271154&hilit=propex+installation#p1271154

:thinking:

Tony
User avatar
tony.latham
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 7011
Images: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Middle of Idaho on the edge of nowhere
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby bdosborn » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:24 pm

saltydawg wrote:Diesel heaters work, but do have issues. They dont cycle they just turn down lower, they can in some situation over heat the trailer. They are cheap.


Chinese knockoff diesel heaters are cheap and may not cycle. The real ones - Espar, Eberspacher or Webasto turn down very nicely but they're not cheap. As usual, you get what you pay for. I love my little Espar D1C diesel heater.

Image

You can read about mine in a maintenance post I did: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=41232&p=760978

Bruce
Last edited by bdosborn on Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2009 6.5'X11' TTT - Boxcar
All it takes is a speck of faith and a few kilowatts of sweat and grace.
Image
Boxcar Build
aVANger Build
User avatar
bdosborn
Donating Member
 
Posts: 5551
Images: 790
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:10 pm
Location: CO, Littleton
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby S. Heisley » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:13 pm

- You could use a Heater Buddy, which runs off of propane. Do not use it while sleeping. heat up your trailer before you go to bed, turn it off when you go to bed, and turn it back on when you are ready to get up in the morning.

- Take a hot water bottle to bed with you.

- Get a Jackery portable power system or other such type and some good solar screens to hook to it. Plug your electric heater to your Jackery at night.
User avatar
S. Heisley
Super Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 8813
Images: 495
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:02 am
Location: No. California
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby lfhoward » Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:57 pm

I also want to plug the Propex heater. I’m in the midst of installing mine and can’t wait until it’s in. Here is a mock up on the work bench.

Image

They are definitely expensive when brand new but keep an eye on eBay and the classifieds here and on Expedition Portal. You can sometimes find one for a much lower price point. If you are willing to troubleshoot, you can get a broken one for cheap (what I did) and fix it. Propex has great customer service and will work with you to get you replacement parts.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby John61CT » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:50 pm

For a small space in less than arctic cold, the catalytic Wave heaters are good.

Not vented to the outside so do need to ventilate at a slow rate is enough.

CO detection needed regardless IMO.

Needs clever mounting if a very small living space.

Need to keep the catalytic protected and clean.

The forced air Espar type and Propex are both great, just different fuels
John61CT
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1958
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:36 pm
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby rbtrary » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:26 am

I'm very pleased with how nicely my diesel heater clone heats my trailer.
Mine is a portable exterior setup.
See my pictures later into this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73267
rbtrary
Teardrop Builder
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:38 pm
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby Dahlia47 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:51 am

How safe are these? I have a Carbon detector in my camper.
Dahlia47
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:06 pm
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby saltydawg » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:29 am

Dahlia47 wrote:How safe are these? I have a Carbon detector in my camper.


They are pretty safe, until they are not. But thats very very rare, and even then they dont burn down anything they just die and need to be replaced.

One thing I would recommend is mounting it outside the trailer ( underneath or on tongue ) , or buy one of the all in one units and sit it outside. The air temp on those things gets close to 200 degrees on high, you dont want to recirculate the air, just heat fresh air and send it in to the trailer. Mounting it or sitting it outside makes it easy to just heat fresh air, and a lot less likely to over heat your trailer.

If I had a 20 something TT I would have one in a heart beat, but not for my very well insulated teardrop.
Scott
Lost in Maryland
2021 just said to 2020, hold my beer and watch this.
saltydawg
500 Club
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:34 pm
Location: Maryland
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby tony.latham » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:30 am

How safe are these? I have a Carbon detector in my camper.


The Propex and diesel heaters vent the exhaust outside if that's what you are asking.

Tony
User avatar
tony.latham
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 7011
Images: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Middle of Idaho on the edge of nowhere
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby troubleScottie » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:29 pm

All have the advantages and disadvantages.

The water heaters eg Atwood generally are powered by electric or propane. The combustion vents directly outside. One could just heat the water and let the heat circulate by convection. Not particularly effective and you have little control on the temperature. This is not really designed heat. It is a byproduct of the system. Adding pipes/radiator/pumps/fans might help. Remember, the water might freeze. So either run it all the time or use a glycol mixture. Obviously, if you already have it installed for hot water, you could take advantage of it. Big issue on space, especially for a small TD.

The diesel/propane heaters are similar in concept. A true heater system designed for cars, vans and big rig truck cabins often with thermostats and fans. Combustion happens in an external container which heats air to circulate into the cabin. Air intake and exhaust for the combustion is separate from the circulating air. Require battery power to run the ignition, thermostat and fans. Air is not the best thermal conductor. However for the small space of a TD, there are more than sufficient. Requires installation of unit, fuel and power connection and ducting for both air intakes and exhausts. They can take up a fair amount of space. Might be difficult to retro fit.

Diesel is good if you are already carrying diesel; fuel is easily available. Depending on the model, the unit can be installed outside or inside. The biggest issue is it needs to be cleaned occasionally and can break down. Generally requires a short startup process (3-10minutes). Due to the startup process, they generally do not turn off when temperature is reached, but slow down. There are limits on how low an external temperature due to the diesel can freeze or slow in flow. Some people find the exhaust fumes a bit ugly. There are several very nice (read expensive) models as well as the cheap literally Chinese knockoffs.

Propane heaters have units to install inside or outside the cabin. Turn on-off performance. Generally less issues with the combustion unit as propane is cleaner. Obviously need to have propane installed on the TD. There might be issues with getting more propane if you run out eg not available everywhere or at 3AM on Sunday. There are some limits on altitude (below 10,000 ft ???) and external temperature (propane can freeze but what are you doing camping at those temperatures?). Often the propane units are more expensive. I am not aware of any knock off or cheap ones. I presume they must exist.

Then there are the propane heaters eg Mr Heater. These use a ceramic heating surface. Combustion takes place on a ceramic tile surface with surface temperatures of approximately 1800°F. Higher temperatures produced by this equipment means they must have a higher clearance to combustibles. No real temperature controls. Big difference is that the combustion is occurring inside the cabin. It generates a fair amount of water vapor and could generate carbon monoxide. As others have stated, use to warm cabin, turn off, let cool, sleep, turn on again in the morning. Never run while sleeping or unattended. They are cheaper, can use 1 lb propane tanks or attached to larger tanks, portable. Could be moved around easily.

There are other open flame propane devices that could provide heat eg lanterns, camp stove. No really good heaters, and a fire hazard. However, in an emergency, an option.

Electric blankets might work. I cannot seem to find typical or atypical power consumption. Appears to be 130-300 W depending on size of blanket, number of controllers,etc. At the higher value, at 12V, using 25A per hour. Really will put a dent into any battery quite quickly. Definitely not a run all night solution. Maybe a warm up the blankets solution. Obviously need an inverter, although I have heard of 12V blankets.

The only remaining thought is good sleeping bags/quilts. Your TD is a small (insulated?) hard shell tent. So, a good bag and body heat might raise the temperature high enough. There are quilts and poncho lines designed to be worn. Granted this is not going to be 70 degree. Adding a water bottle with very hot water is another suggestion.
Last edited by troubleScottie on Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael Krolewski
Scottish Terrier Fancier
troubleScottie
Donating Member
 
Posts: 360
Images: 16
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:02 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby GTS225 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:36 pm

Dahlia47 wrote:I am looking for a different way to heat our camper. We have a small electric heater. It works great. It's a small space, so it heats very well. However, we don't always have a place to plug in at certain parks or places we go. My little solar panel won't power it. After 10 pm we have to turn off the generator. What alternative ways do you heat your camper?


No one has mentioned on-board batteries, charged by your solar panel, with an attached inverter to pull 120VAC from.
How big is your heater? Need wattage, or voltage and current ratings. Should be on the bottom. A sticker, or possibly cast onto the housing bottom.

Awaiting response.....Roger
GTS225
The 300 Club
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:11 am
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby lfhoward » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:13 pm

Electrical heating elements suck battery power. Your average ceramic heater is 1200 or 1500 watts at 120 volts, which would be a draw of 10 or 12.5 amps at 120 volts AC. At 12 volts, on the battery side of your inverter, this would translate to 100 or 125 amps (not including inefficiency in the conversion from DC to AC inside the inverter). 100 or 125 amps would drain a 100 amp hour deep cycle battery to 50% (the lowest you should go) in less than 30 minutes. It wouldn’t be able to keep you warm for long.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
User avatar
lfhoward
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Top

Re: Alternative Heating

Postby kmack67.km » Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:42 pm

Depending on how big your trailer is and how warm you want it, a mini wood stove or even a candle lantern might be enough.

Links here:
https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/collect ... wood-stove
https://www.ucogear.com/candle-lanterns ... anterns%2f

If you just need to warm a small insulated space before zipping into your sleeping bag, the candle lantern will drive off some of the damp. You might also consider boiling a large pot of water before you go to bed and letting it sit on the counter.

Happy holidays,
Kevin
kmack67.km
Teardrop Advisor
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Southern Ontario
Top

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests