G&M's 'Drop

[jongaud]

Here are samples (color swatches) produced by Monstaliner. Five out of six I ordered from them show this.
Seems they do not fully understand their own product (?)

[GarthB]

It’s a very frustrating predicament. We followed the directions from ML closer than any other product that has been used on this build. A number of the swatches that we got have the same defects.

It’s especially frustrating that you get different advice depending on the employee that picks up the phone at ML. One says to clean with water after sanding, and yet if the owner picks up, he says to never use water and to only use MEK. Their instructions specifically state that water should be used to clean between coats if scuffing is required.

The most anxiety I’m feeling from all of this is the fact that we really don’t know the cause. I’ve discovered since my last post that both coats did this. I’m praying that what’s left of the pinholes will fill with paint when we apply the next coat. The whole surface has been sanded to the point that I’ve sanded through at least half of the depth of each air bubble. I don’t want to go any further because I don’t want to risk burning through the primer or into the fiberglass.

Not knowing what (or if) we did something wrong has me worried that the same thing is going to happen again. We’re definitely going to apply in early morning when it’s cooler and roll slower. Aside from that, I’ve been unable to come up with any flaws in our mixing and application methods.

[Tom&Shelly]

Thanks a lot Cody, Bezoar, and Noseoil! I really appreciate the encouragement. There have been aspects of this project that have gone easier than I'd anticipated and there have been aspects that have been much, much more difficult.

It's not all rainbows and butterflies quite yet, unfortunately. What I had passed off as being "part of the texture" the last few days actually turns out to be an unexpected demon, commonly known by painters as "solvent popping". Each of the little speckles in the photo is a tiny void of air that didn't make its way through the surface. As we all know, "voids" are a horrible word in projects like these.



After a discussion with Monstaliner over the phone this morning, I have another gallon on order. We couldn't quite nail down the culprite, but it was likely caused by the base coat not being cured enough, the top coat being too thick, or the air temperature. It was low to mid 80's when we applied and we waited approximately 2 hours between coats, since the can stated that re-coat times would be as low as 1-1.5 hours in warm temps. The base coat had hardly any tack left to it when we applied the top coat, so I'm not 100% sold on that theory either.

Regardless of the cause, we'll be sanding down the top coat enough to open up all of these little voids so that they can be filled with a new coat. From what I can tell after a little sanding in spots, the base coat is void free. The gentleman from ML said that I probably didn't have anything worth worrying about if I put it off a year or so. The thought of putting it off is tempting, however, we've worked too hard to get to this point to finish the project with a flawed end product.

I'm thinking we might name this thing Tenacity...

We had some of that with our build. Thought it might be dust on the primed surface. We chose to leave it alone and no one's commented on it. It's now been driven across the country and is living outdoors in the Northeast this Summer, and no signs of any failure.

Tom

[GarthB]

Thanks Tom. I'm glad to hear it hasn't impacted the performance of your coating. It makes me feel a little better about the whole situation.

Below are what the walls look like after a couple of hours with the random orbital and some 120 grit. I've yet to do the roof or hatch. I think I may back off on them a bit though and not worry quite as much about opening up the pinholes as far and strive more just to knock them down to the level of the rest of the surrounding paint. If anyone thinks that's a bad idea and that I should be just as aggressive, please, feel free to chime in.

If you zoom in close on the first photo, you can see what remains of the issue. Tiny little pinhead sized craters.




I'm really hoping one additional coat will be enough to make this whole issue disappear... Again, if anyone thinks otherwise, do tell!

[noseoil]

Can't help but wonder if rolling isn't causing some of this issue, trapped air trying to get out as the surface layer skins over.

Spraying might change the way it goes on & cures, but buying a spray rig for a one-off would cost too much. Will be curious to see if the next coat has the same trouble, or if it lays down flat. PITA having to sand it down again, but in the end it should make for a good job if the next application is smooth.

"Endeavor to persevere... "

[twisted lines]

I have enjoyed following your build, like the flat back
Wasn’t sure in the beginning.
Great pictures, thank’s for sharing!

I did a little sanding on mine as well, due to time and two color’s.
The direction’s, and I would recommend TSP wash, I used the 3m scratch pad they provided to wash / rinse, the top coat (low’s) need Touched

Then wipe with MEK & follow with clean part of cloth.
I sprayed and like it, the second time.

Wipe with MEK just prior to paint makes it tacky again

[twisted lines]

Can't help but wonder if rolling isn't causing some of this issue, trapped air trying to get out as the surface layer skins over.

Spraying might change the way it goes on & cures, but buying a spray rig for a one-off would cost too much. Will be curious to see if the next coat has the same trouble, or if it lays down flat. PITA having to sand it down again, but in the end it should make for a good job if the next application is smooth.

"Endeavor to persevere... "

I over rolled mine, Didn’t see this but pieces of roller did come off,
Temp? Sunshine? Reducer; amount, affected drying time

[OP827]

I would plan the work in such a way that the surface temperature is getting lower once the fresh coat is on because temperature rising could cause out gassing and trapped bubbles to expand or move to surface. Slight dry heating the surface before the coat and letting it gradually cool once coated should help in reducing bubbling action. No heating whatsoever (including sun exposure) after the coat is applied and before it's substantially cured.

It could be challenging to eliminate inside bubbles and pinholes that are already in the coat, but since these are all closed cell bubbles, I feel these are not critical for the coat integrity.

[GarthB]

Thanks everybody for the feedback. If I had the equipment to spray it, I definitely would. Like Noseoil said though, not very justifiable for a one-off project.

I’ve decided, given my lack of paint knowledge, to phone a friend that does a lot of epoxy and paint work to come and take a look at it and give me his advice. If he has something different that he recommends and would be willing to apply, I may very well just throw in the towel and have him spray it after I’ve sanded everything down completely smooth. Gambling another $200 on Monstaliner and not knowing if it’s going to turn out any better isn’t setting well with me. If he thinks it’s worth another try at the ML, I’ll go ahead and place another order.

[jongaud]

. Gambling another $200 on Monstaliner and not knowing if it’s going to turn out any better isn’t setting well with me. If he thinks it’s worth another try at the ML, I’ll go ahead and place another order.

I’m shocked! I was expecting ML to send you replacement stuff for free.

[Capebuild]

Just a suggestion (and I have no experience with the product you're using).... replicate the scenario you are experiencing on several pieces of scrap lumber. Then try different solutions on the scraps (rather than experimenting on your really nice trailer. Once you've hit upon a good looking end result in your samples, do the process on your trailer. Again, just a suggestion.

[tony.latham]

Garth:

This is eating me up --and I do not have a solution.



My Monsterliner didn't have any of these pin holes.



Tony

[GarthB]

Capebuild: I appreciate the suggestion. I definitely should've tested it, but at nearly $200 per gallon and all of the glowing reviews/tutorials, I figured it had to be a pretty foolproof paint if the directions were followed. If I do end up sticking with the ML route, I will give the testing some greater consideration.

Tony: It's definitely got me stumped. Like I've noted previously, we followed the directions to a "T," including the recommendations relating to temperature and humidity.

When I call ML to potentially cancel my order tomorrow, I'm going to plead my case for some form of a warranty resolution. Between the primer, liner, and rollers, we have sunk just over $600 into their product. I don't even think a single additional coat would be enough to amend the issue given the amount of sanding that needs to be done in order to eliminate the pinholes and avoid more trapped air.

I have a really tough time believing it was an error on our end, considering there are YouTube videos of people applying this stuff in their backyard in the middle of the afternoon on a sunny day with successful outcomes. We did a thin coat on an area of the hatch that I decided not to do a second layer on, and it bubbled as well.

[western traveler]

Garth,
Yes, strongly plead your case with them. They must have product Rep’s out in the field if it is that costly and popular.
It wouldn’t be the first time for a product defect.
Good luck, I hope you get it resolved without further cash outlay. Labor is bad enough a price to pay.

[GarthB]

Update on the paint-pocalypse: The friend that I called in to take a look at the paint was very helpful and both him and ML feel confident that I'll be able to apply additional ML over the exposed pinholes without replicating the same problem. If for some reason it does happen again, my friend offered to spray an epoxy based, UV stable, satin clear coat over the whole thing after lightly scuff sanding the sharp heads off of the surface to give it a good seal coat and be done with it.

As for ML, they weren't easy to get ahold of. It took a lot of effort to make contact with them, but once I did, they agreed to send replacement product. Neither ML or my friend were able to diagnose the issue with any certainty. Both said, "Sometimes, you just happen to be the unlucky one out of the bunch."

We're currently awaiting a break in the hot, humid weather to apply two additional coats over everything. In the meantime, I mixed up the little bit of epoxy that I had left and brushed some on the surface of the exterior, behind where the diamond plate will be, to see how well epoxy fills the voids. It's a different viscosity than the ML, so it isn't a perfect test, but it'll at least hopefully be a good "no go" indicator if it fails to fill the voids and decides to pop if any trapped air expands during the cure. I'll scuff the epoxy once its fully cured and apply the ML directly over it since its a small area.