Axle questions

[kscmpr54]

I'm in the planning phase of building a teardrop, a 2+2 high, starting with the frame. As I look at axles, there are straight with leaf springs, cambered with leaf springs and torsion. Is there a preferred type for teardrops? Also picking the weight capacity. I believe the total weight will be less than 2000#, but have been told to allow for dynamic weight when towing, so am told an axle of approximately double the trailer weight is necessary. I welcome any input anyone can offer.

[noseoil]

On our build we used the 2000# utility trailer for the frame, with matching axle & leaf springs to start the build. After a few years of towing, I started to notice a slight (about 1/16" after 15,000 miles) wearing of the inside edges of the tread on the tires. The axle was flexing slightly under the load, creating a negative camber effect due to the weight of a 1700# trailer on a 2,000# axle. Our build is a bit on the porky side, 5' wide X 4' tall X 9' long with a "few" extra things which added some weight (target was 1,200#, oh well). Once I noticed the flex, I changed out the axle to a 3,500# type with 10" drum brakes. It's a stiffer ride & probably a bit over-sprung for the 1700# load we have, but there's no visible tire wear now, the trailer sits a bit higher & it rides well enough. The brake controller is located in the tongue box (thanks Sheddie).

I wouldn't build another teardop this weight without the brakes. It's much better this way & took away the "push" I would feel when towing with a 1/2 ton truck. I think towing a 2,000# teardrop would mean brakes & a rating of at least 2,500# to make things right. Tony Latham builds with torsion axles, but I have no experience with them, so hopefully he'll chime in with a few comments for you. Good luck on your planning, it's the most important part of the build.

[kscmpr54]

Thank you for the response Noseoil. Appreciate the insight. Also have read your comments in other threads I’ve perused. Thank you for being an active member of this community.

My TV is also a half ton pickup, and I wondered about the brakes too. My thought had been to try without and add later if needed. I think I go the better safe than sorry route and start out with them. My old pop-up was so light I didn’t feel the push with it.

Thanks again.


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[Wolfgang92025]

As I look at axles, there are straight with leaf springs, cambered with leaf springs and torsion.

Hi Kansas Camper

1st, welcome to the fun.

Not a clear cut answer to your question. Usually comes down to cost and indented use.
I think leaf spring axles tend to be less cost, are a proven design and easy to repair. Harder part can be getting the ride quality set up right to the weight of you trailer.
Torsion axles have been around for quite a while now. Ride quality for my trailer is great and I have had zero issues for the last 10 years.The nice thing for the 2&2 High is the the design library has all the data you need to order one for that specific trailer design.

Intended use, when I built the woody while living in San Diego, campgrounds (100%) is all I knew. So it was paved roads with the last mile maybe gravel or hard packed dirt.
After moving the Salt Lake City, my camping style has changes a lot. Now it is a 50/50 mix of campgrounds and BLM boon docking. The roads for boon docking quite often are are just a two track and gets rough. My only issue with the woody is ground clearance, and I have pushed the limited a few times. That is one of the reasons why I started a new built about 2 weeks ago with more clearance and hopefully it will be lighter.

The woody came in at 2000# and I was trying to watch my weight. So remember, you are building an aircraft, not a tank. No matter what you choose, I would not built it without brakes.

When you start building, we love

[tony.latham]

As I look at axles, there are straight with leaf springs, cambered with leaf springs and torsion.

I really like torsion axles --I believe they give the trailer a smoother ride. All U.S. military utility trailers are now equipped with Dexter Torflex torsion axles. There's a reason for that.


Here's the axle I use:

• #9 Dexter Torflex axle, downrated to 1500 pounds
• Start Angle: 22.5” down
• Trailer width: 59.5”
• Hub face: 74”
• Hub diameter: 6.5”
• Bolt Pattern: 5 on 4-1/2” with standard studs
• Lubrication: EZ Lube
• Electric Brakes: Yes

(Of note, I build a 60" wide cabin and install it on a 59.5" frame. That allows it to be a 1/4" proud of the chassis on the sides. I think it looks better and for sheathing with aluminum, the trim doesn't ride on the frame.)

Dexter builds each axle as a custom order so you need to order them direct from Dexter. They are more expensive than leaf spring axles, at about $600.





Tony

[noseoil]

Forgot to mention, a big plus is using 15" rims for your trailer. Mine came with 13" rims & it limits tire choices, rolling speeds & general ride quality. When I did the utility trailer (based on the old 2,000# axle from the teardrop) I went with 15" rims & I think it makes a difference in towing. Better ride, easier off the road & lots of light truck tires available. Some people build with the same tire size as their tow vehicle, you will just need one spare that way for both...

[kscmpr54]

Wolfgang and Tony, thank you for your responses. I have read many of both of your posts and Wolfgang read the entirety of your build journal, part of my inspiration.

My intended use is mainly campgrounds but occasionally I do go boon docking. When that occurs, it is usually a maintained gravel road until the last quarter or half mile, which is a two track dirt path. So adequate clearance is important too. The ones we’ve traveled down so far have not been too bad but on occasion did make me antsy about the pop-up I had at the time.

Thank you both for your contributions to this community. Lots of wisdom you share.

Karl


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[kscmpr54]

Thanks Noseoil. I will be using 15” wheels for the reasons you mentioned.


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[working on it]

* As a counterpoint, here's my case for using leaf springs, from an earlier thread http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=66773&hilit=dexter+axle&start=15#p1223878

• I don't agree that a leaf spring axle is too "bouncy" to ride right, and that only Timbren axles, or torsion axles are the way to go. I like, trust, and have easily repaired leaf spring axles, before, and wouldn't write them off to history, as being out-dated or incapable for light or heavy use. with a little planning or modifications, you can tailor leaf springs for any road condition.
• As I stated before, earlier in this thread and in others, I stayed with leaves on my last trailer mod/upgrade, when replacing my original axle and springs (overloaded spindly axle of unknown capacity) with a Dexter 3500 lb axle w/brakes. I replaced the original equipment with off-the-shelf springs from Northern Tool. I bought the 3000 lb (a pair, sold individually) springs, because I knew I was loading my trailer heavier with each trip, and modification, and was pretty sure it would weigh more than 2000 lbs eventually. I would've preferred a 2500 lb rating, but they didn't offer a rating in between 2-3k lbs in the size/type I was using, I got the 3000 lb set which has worked pretty well, so far.

• 

  same springs available from many suppliers (local,too)

  northern springs2.JPG (53.75 KiB) Viewed 1668 times

• Since my previous spring set had a shackle tear loose from the frame. I reinforced the frame rails with 1/4" angle, boxing in/ covering over the trailer frame, I opted for all new hardware. New leaf springs and all the associated hardware are easy to come by in North Texas, and I chose to stay with leaf springs due to ready availability everywhere, and standardization of the hardware making repairs easy to do. I previously had another trailer spring problem, on my tandem trailer, which I had grossly over-loaded with engine blocks and heads, breaking one spring when it over-flexed (used a ratchet strap, 5000 lb rating, to secure the broken end). I replaced it in a parking lot near the Redneck Trailer Supply that I passed on my way home, where I got a replacement spring. Later on, I replaced much more hardware, worn and rusted out, on that trailer in 2007, when I replaced both axles with new Rockwell-American axles (each 3500 lb w/brakes), at a friend's shop near Azle, where there is another ready source for spring axle parts.
• I added an oversized, progressive, bumpstop (modified to fit between axle and frame, with no gap), to serve as a means to soften hard jolts, and prevent the springs from over-flexing (which tore loose the shackle on my TTT, and broke the spring on my tandem trailer). I tried it as an experiment, in lieu of using shock absorbers, or air bags, or Timbren airless springs. Since I made my own "active airless suspension", I see that Timbren makes their own version, which wasn't made back in 2014, when I made mine.

• 

  Timbren versions

  active bumpstops.JPG (63.44 KiB) Viewed 1668 times

  vs homemade, earlier version

• 

  made mine without ever seeing Timbrens first

  my homemade bumpstops2.JPG (67.85 KiB) Viewed 1668 times

• It works very well, proving itself when it protected my springs from breakage, when my trailer flew after hitting a major pothole at 75 mph (so bad that it caused belt separation in three of my truck tires, 10 ply, on my Chevy 2500 HD). I haven't taken it off-road yet, but I think it will serve well there, too, and if too harsh, then I can adjust the bumpstop by cutting the center ligament, and make it more compliant. IMHO, leaf springs are more easily repairable/cost effective/modifiable than the alternatives.

* P.S. like Noseoil, I believe that using larger tires is better overall, than smaller diameter ones, for the same reasons. And further, using passenger-car radials on lightweight teardrops is OK, but for heavier, possibly off-road trailers, LT tires are better than using may-pop "Chinesesium" ST tires. My TTT uses 14" LTs.

[working on it]

* I neglected to mention that my 3500 lb Dexter was ordered to my specs, with no camber, with brakes and EZ Lube spindles, for $325 in 2014, much cheaper than either Timbren or torsion, even back then.

axle tag and receipt.jpg (63.8 KiB) Viewed 1664 times

[kscmpr54]

* As a counterpoint, here's my case for using leaf springs, from an earlier thread http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=66773&hilit=dexter+axle&start=15#p1223878

• I don't agree that a leaf spring axle is too "bouncy" to ride right, and that only Timbren axles, or torsion axles are the way to go. I like, trust, and have easily repaired leaf spring axles, before, and wouldn't write them off to history, as being out-dated or incapable for light or heavy use. with a little planning or modifications, you can tailor leaf springs for any road condition.
• As I stated before, earlier in this thread and in others, I stayed with leaves on my last trailer mod/upgrade, when replacing my original axle and springs (overloaded spindly axle of unknown capacity) with a Dexter 3500 lb axle w/brakes. I replaced the original equipment with off-the-shelf springs from Northern Tool. I bought the 3000 lb (a pair, sold individually) springs, because I knew I was loading my trailer heavier with each trip, and modification, and was pretty sure it would weigh more than 2000 lbs eventually. I would've preferred a 2500 lb rating, but they didn't offer a rating in between 2-3k lbs in the size/type I was using, I got the 3000 lb set which has worked pretty well, so far.
• northern springs2.JPG
• Since my previous spring set had a shackle tear loose from the frame. I reinforced the frame rails with 1/4" angle, boxing in/ covering over the trailer frame, I opted for all new hardware. New leaf springs and all the associated hardware are easy to come by in North Texas, and I chose to stay with leaf springs due to ready availability everywhere, and standardization of the hardware making repairs easy to do. I previously had another trailer spring problem, on my tandem trailer, which I had grossly over-loaded with engine blocks and heads, breaking one spring when it over-flexed (used a ratchet strap, 5000 lb rating, to secure the broken end). I replaced it in a parking lot near the Redneck Trailer Supply that I passed on my way home, where I got a replacement spring. Later on, I replaced much more hardware, worn and rusted out, on that trailer in 2007, when I replaced both axles with new Rockwell-American axles (each 3500 lb w/brakes), at a friend's shop near Azle, where there is another ready source for spring axle parts.
• I added an oversized, progressive, bumpstop (modified to fit between axle and frame, with no gap), to serve as a means to soften hard jolts, and prevent the springs from over-flexing (which tore loose the shackle on my TTT, and broke the spring on my tandem trailer). I tried it as an experiment, in lieu of using shock absorbers, or air bags, or Timbren airless springs. Since I made my own "active airless suspension", I see that Timbren makes their own version, which wasn't made back in 2014, when I made mine.
• active bumpstops.JPG
  vs homemade, earlier version
• my homemade bumpstops2.JPG
• It works very well, proving itself when it protected my springs from breakage, when my trailer flew after hitting a major pothole at 75 mph (so bad that it caused belt separation in three of my truck tires, 10 ply, on my Chevy 2500 HD). I haven't taken it off-road yet, but I think it will serve well there, too, and if too harsh, then I can adjust the bumpstop by cutting the center ligament, and make it more compliant. IMHO, leaf springs are more easily repairable/cost effective/modifiable than the alternatives.

* P.S. like Noseoil, I believe that using larger tires is better overall, than smaller diameter ones, for the same reasons. And further, using passenger-car radials on lightweight teardrops is OK, but for heavier, possibly off-road trailers, LT tires are better than using may-pop "Chinesesium" ST tires. My TTT uses 14" LTs.

Thank you for the additional perspective Working On It. Lots to consider.


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[Midget]

Both our Midget and 5x8 were built with Dexter Torqflex axles. I like how smooth they ride and the axle is used as one of the cross members to keep weight down.

[kscmpr54]

Thanks Midget. I’ve read where torsion axles provide a smoother ride. Lower weight makes sense too. Thanks for you insight.


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