A bit of a registration dilema...

[jeffmutch]

So here's my deal, I'm hoping someone may have a suggestion or at least ease my mind by telling me I'm overreacting.

My Harbor Freight Trailer tongue ended up with a large crack in it last weekend after a few too many rough spots on the road. I decided to purchase a whole new trailer, replace the tongue and reinforce it, and save the axle, bearings, and leaf springs for later if they ever get worn out. (possibly worth the $300 dollar bill but we'll find out later)

My problem is that the tongue has the VIN number on it. I now have a trailer who's license plate will not match it's VIN. Granted, the chances of anyone even noticing are slim because there is rarely a reason to check the VIN; but I'm tempted to scrap the old plate, and go register it as a brand new trailer, though that seems painful and somewhat dishonest.

Another option is to switch the plate which has the VIN printed on it and somehow switch only the VIN.. much less painful but even more dishonest. Any Ideas?

[parnold]

Switch the plate. All you need is a couple aluminum rivets.

[michaelwpayton]

Switch the plate. All you need is a couple aluminum rivets.

What he said.

[legojenn]

I would think that if you wanted to be sure, it would be best to consult a lawyer or the agency who issues licence plates, but all you're doing is replacing a damaged piece of metal. If it were any other part on the trailer, this would not be an issue. My trailer's VIN tag is on the side of the trailer, so if my trailer's tongue gets replaced, I wouldn't think about having to re-register it.

Look at it this way. If you took the tongue from a registered trailer that you were going to junk, and added it to a new trailer so you could evade the cost of a licence plate and a safety check, would you feel like you were breaking a law or reg?

[eamarquardt]

You're not doing anything dishonest like using stolen parts.

Ask yourself if the VIN were elsewhere on the trailer and you replaced the tongue would you have any concerns? (ans NO) Are any of the parts serialized so that they can be traced? (ans NO).

So, you're just replacing a piece of metal that happens to have the vin on it. If you had a car with the license plate on the bumper and replaced the bumper would you have any concerns?

Just do it, no one will ever know, and if they did know, I serrrrrrrrrrriously doubt that it is an issue.

Just do it.

Cheers,

Gus

[TJinPgh]

One of those questions that's a matter of perspective.

The VIN is assigned to the trailer, not a specific part of it.

The perspective part comes in what constitutes a "trailer." Is it the frame. The Axle/Wheels. Some other component. Or, a combination of all of it.

I'd say the latter.

So long as you're not swapping out more parts than you're leaving behind then I'd, personally, argue that it's the same trailer.

As with anything else, though. There may be laws in your state that say differently. I'd probably consult a notary just to be sure.

[michaelwpayton]

This is hilarious... only in "these times".

God help us all to realize that not everything in life is so complicated... so serious... so scary... that it requires a lawyer, a government agency and/or a bureaucrat.

[CarlLaFong]

I'd probably consult a notary just to be sure.

Not to discredit any notaries out there but the main thing a notary does is check ID. There seems to be a misconception that they are the final say so in any sort of verification. Every eBay auction seems to contain a "Notarized Letter of Authenticity" proving that this is, indeed, Babe Ruth's actual cigar buttl. Just ain't so.
To get back to the subject, tampering with, removing, switching or altering VINs is a Federal offense. That is the letter of the law. The spirit of the law is to prevent renumbering of stolen vehicles or other fraudulent behaviors. I wouldn't worry if it was my trailer. Nobody is ever going to investigate you or impound your trailer unless you do a sloppy job or pull some sort of boneheaded stunt, and then it is still unlikely.

[Kevin A]

If I faced the issue, I'd be looking for a stronger piece of steel to replace the tongue and attach the original VIN plate to the new tongue. It's still the same trailer, same VIN tag and a safer vehicle to be towing down the road. Much cheaper than buying another HF trailer that you aren't going to use.

[wagondude]

If I faced the issue, I'd be looking for a stronger piece of steel to replace the tongue and attach the original VIN plate to the new tongue. It's still the same trailer, same VIN tag and a safer vehicle to be towing down the road. Much cheaper than buying another HF trailer that you aren't going to use.

1,000+. This is exactly what I was going to say.

Bill

[TJinPgh]

I'd probably consult a notary just to be sure.

Not to discredit any notaries out there but the main thing a notary does is check ID. There seems to be a misconception that they are the final say so in any sort of verification. Every eBay auction seems to contain a "Notarized Letter of Authenticity" proving that this is, indeed, Babe Ruth's actual cigar buttl. Just ain't so.

Maybe that's true in CA. Can't say. Here in PA? Notaries need to be up on every law dealing with titling and registration. If they're not and they submit something that's wrong they get their license yanked.

Which is why AAA tends to be a big PITA when it comes to these types of things. They dot every I and cross every T. Sometimes beyond what is necessary.

Yes, some notaries will certify anything. They don't last very long.

The REPUTABLE ones know the law and, in my experience, tend to be a reliable source of info.

To get back to the subject, tampering with, removing, switching or altering VINs is a Federal offense. That is the letter of the law.

Yes, but the question is whether or not any of those actually apply. If the frame were broken and he were taking the tongue or the tag from the registered trailer and sticking it on the new one then, yes, they would apply. He's not.

He's not remving it any more than one might be if they took the bolts out of the tongue and replaced them with new ones. Nor is he switching it for the same reason.

He's not altering the VIN. That suggests that he is altering numbers, which he is not.

The spirit of the law is to prevent renumbering of stolen vehicles or other fraudulent behaviors. I wouldn't worry if it was my trailer. Nobody is ever going to investigate you or impound your trailer unless you do a sloppy job or pull some sort of boneheaded stunt, and then it is still unlikely.

Agreed.

Like I said, if I were concerned about it, I'd contact a notary and ask them if, in their non-binding opinion, the tag can be switched. If they say no, then chances are one could simply contact the DMV where it was registered. Explain the situation to them and they will either tell him to switch the tag or they will issue a duplicate tag and tell him to send the non-registered tag to them.

[jeffmutch]

Very interesting points you all have brought up, thank you! I have reinforced the new tongue where the old one cracked and taken some weight off also. I suppose for now it seems very silly to have only replaced a couple peices of steel but debate on whether it's a new trailer or not. However, the reason I bought a whole new trailer in the first place was for the new tongue, new bearings, new axle, and eventually lights I'm sure. So right now, it seems silly to call it a new trailer but how about after I replace the rest of these parts? I would say the majority of the old trailer will eventually be scrap, though if I replaced these parts with individually purchased pieces, I would feel no obligation whatsoever to re-register it.

I kind of feel like I'm ripping the tag off a mattress...

I do have the title for the original trailer registered with the DMV and the new title from Harbor Freight that I will certainly carry with me so I can explain the situation if something does arrise. *fingers crossed*

[parnold]

I kind of feel like I'm ripping the tag off a mattress...

First thing I do when I get a mattress, or pillow, or piece of furniture is to rip off the label that says "DO NOT REMOVE"

[jeff0520]

Here's an alternative idea. Get yourself a piece of 2.5x2.5x3/16ths steel tubing around 8 feet long. That will allow you, with a little work, to add a tongue extension like this:


The existing frame already has the holes to bolt up brackets under there to attach it. You'll have to cut off the raised bit on the triangle shaped plate where the current coupler is bolted, and move the coupler out to the end of the new tube. You'll be able to drill a few holes, and it will bolt right up.
Once that center tube is in place, the frame piece with the VIN plate on it isn't nearly as important as it used to be. Have a local welding shop fix the crack, then you have another whole chassis to do something cool with

[2bits]

I believe the mattress tag says only to be removed by purchaser. You own both trailers correct? You are being too philosophical about right and wrong in my opinion. Swap the VIN tag and stop sweating the small stuff, you didn't steal anything and let the semantics be banished to California... (i.e. over regulated)