Laminated SIPs?

[KA]

Hi GPW,
I know there must be some use for bubble-wrap in my project..
Kris

[GPW]

KA...as Mad Jack is fond of reminding us .... there's many ways to do things ....TRUE!!!! And I guess different materials to try ....
I still think the SIP concept is GREAT ..... for manufacturing en'masse... going through all that just for one or two ...NA!!!!!! Not when you can make a wonderfully light , insulated panel , with some simple(accurate) carpentry and no chemical , electrical ,meters , guages , tape, hissing ... etc. bothers , just some sawdust on the floor ... I' thinking of making the panels in an interlocking manner so a few screws,... DONE !!!inside and out .... roof / ceiling goes on as one panel ...Walls too ... all basic woodworking , with some advanced measuring ...Fun for the Craftsman ....

[KA]

Hi Craftsman,
You are right about keeping things simple. I've been looking at everything I can think of, enjoying brainstrorming (ridiculous and practical), and narrowing things down.
I just purchased and read Steve's Shop Manual which is great and love his inside out ideas. I think now that I have the chassis in mind and most of my cabin wants, it is time to make some sketches, and then maybe a cardboard mock-up or two. I want to be finished by next summer.
Kris

[Yahnozha]

OH man, talk about a great article...for vacuum bagging...check this out.

http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/ ... spress.htm

If you have an air compressor, check out the V2 project, a venturi based system... anyway, just thought id share.

[madjack]

...really good and timely info [email protected] maybe those that want to can build up a wall like Heikki had done in Finland...good find, thanks for posting the link...found any cheap laser cutters yet .....
madjack

[tonyj]

Wow! If those people who built the variations on those vacuum pumps ever got interested in building teardrops, think what they could turn out! Now, how could I put to use a self-built vacuum pump? hmm . . .

[Yahnozha]

Now, how could I put to use a self-built vacuum pump? hmm . . .

Male *enhancment*

[Joanne]

Just for the record, I don't have any idea what I'm talking about, but that has never stopped me before...

A lot of ya'all (that's my best southern talk) have compressors sitting in your shops. If the output of a compressor is pressure, isn't the input vacuum? So rather than having an air filter on the input side of the compressor, why wouldn't you hook that up to your vacuum reservoir? I suppose that maybe it doesn't draw enough vacuum, but it might. Rather than having the pressure switch control the motor, I would hook up a vacuum switch to turn it on and off.

One thing I read online is that a guy found an old stainless steel pool filter (the big round one with the filters inside), gutted it and used it for the vacuum reservoir. It's actually made for pressure but it would probably be strong enough for a vacuum as well.

Am I wayyyy off base here?

Joanne

[DrewKaree]

I believe after reading through this thread, the problem (and reason for looking into vacuum forming/pressing) is being able to exert clamping pressure on the middle of large wide panels.

If I'm understanding all this correctly, wouldn't you be able to take a 2x4 (or 2x6) and make a caul, then slide a piece of either angle iron or use the trailer itself as a base to clamp the edges of the caul to?

A slight radius to the caul, or a more severe radius, depending on what you found you needed?

WAY easier and cheaper than the vacuum method, and you can make numerous cauls to allow you to glue up a huge panel like a 4x8 sheet. You could also use it on the rounded parts for the roof by using ratchet straps connected to the frame, and ratchet equally on either side as needed.

If I'm misunderstanding what the reason for looking into the vacuum method is, please let me know, as that's what I thought the problem was in the first place.

I'm from Wisconsin, and have grown tired of setting up a tent and praying it doesn't rain, or just giving up camping when it turns too cold around here, and this method looks like it will lower weight and total costs. Thinking about planning what I want to do....the wife calls it "dreaming"

[mikeschn]

Hey Drew,

Welcome to the forum.

Good ideas using the cauls. That's probably even better than putting 5 gallon paint buckets every 2'. Thanks for sharing.

Dreaming or planning is a good thing to do. Let us know what you come up with!

Mike...

[asianflava]

If I'm understanding all this correctly, wouldn't you be able to take a 2x4 (or 2x6) and make a caul, then slide a piece of either angle iron or use the trailer itself as a base to clamp the edges of the caul to?

Are you talking about bagging the roof? I haven't looked thru this thread in a long time, but I think most people were just talking about the flat parts like the walls and floor.

I'd say that a majority of us used the ratchet strap method when installing the roof.

In my experience, the problem I ran into was poor compression along the edges. That was more my fault than anything. I was afraid the "clamps" would get glued to the panels by the epoxy that oozed out.

[alaska teardrop]

Hi Drew,

Had to look that word up. Caul = The large fatty omentum covering the intestines. Only in Wisconsin.

On bending laminated panels. A two piece panel made of extruded polystyrene and 1/8" ply or aluminum will bend to the curve of a teardrop. The idea is to make the inner panel with thin ply and, let's say 3/4" foam and install it from the front floor to the hatch hinge rib on the top of an inner wall ledge. Make a second panel of aluminum and 3/4" foam and lay it over the first panel and attach it to the top of the wall. This eliminates constructing cross ribs and the thermal bridges that they create in the front wall & roof. The curve of the panels give the strength. As with any SIP idea, one must work out a good plan to attach the panels together at the 90* angle.

I know of only one builder to try it. Will you be the next?

[DrewKaree]

In my experience, the problem I ran into was poor compression along the edges. That was more my fault than anything. I was afraid the "clamps" would get glued to the panels by the epoxy that oozed out.

I thought the problem Sam was contemplating was being able to get decent clamping pressure right down the midsection of the roof.

When making panels for the sides, it'd be just a flat panel, so weights should give the clamping pressure he needed, but it was sounding like when forming the roof, he didn't feel comfortable with the clamping pressure at the midsection of the rounded roof.

I know, I'm prolly making it about as confusing as it was to me reading it

[DrewKaree]

Had to look that word up. Caul = The large fatty omentum covering the intestines. Only in Wisconsin.

I actually do some woodworking and help a relative with kitchen and basement remodels in the "spare" time that is anything but spare! We use cauls a lot when doing large glue-ups.

Basically, it's just anything you can cut a radius on so that the middle gives you the clamping pressure when pulling down on the ends. If that doesn't make sense, here's a link about what I'm talking about (they also use these in vacuum bagging veneers - similar to Sam's process, but I think the vacuum bagging could be skipped altogether:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org - shortened link

I'm definitely thinking I need to look into this or something similar. I'm partial to the Cabin Car's looks, and I've had to save every one of Rob's pics of his and am poring over them. Something lighter in weight with a high R factor, if only for the sides, would be a TREMENDOUS help in lowering the overall weight. If I can help this process progress, you'll definitely see something (eventually) from me using this method!

[gizmotron]

I've been looking at this SIP thread as the best way/idea to build my lightweight pop-up tear. I didn't like the idea of the end product is weighing 40 lbs per 4' by 8' sheet. It turns out that you can leave out the plywood if you want to. I found a company that makes this stuff in different thicknesses with aluminum or ABS laminates as the skins.

http://www.panelteccorp.com/html/materials.html

They do add a thin layer of hardboard to back the aluminum to protect from dents.

I can get ABS, 4' by 8' sheets, in several different colors for $28 per sheet. It's the same stuff that aluminum travel cases and enclosures are made with for the music industry. I have access to white painted on one side .034 aluminum sheets, 4' by 12' for $50 each from a local scrap metal supply. I can put hard points in each panel before gluing.

To make the top I'm thinking of using three layers of thinner pink foam overlapped in a staggered lamination that will hold the top curve before adding the aluminum & ABS panels. I will add 1/4" plywood spars between each 2' wide section of foam lamination running the long way from front to back. The idea that center spars are common in surfboard blanks that act as stiffeners.

Anyway, the best thing to do now is to make some experimental layups and test them for strength. After reading about the other experiments here I know the glue that I will use and I know about the vacuum bags.