Bringing the outhouse in

[synaps3]

My build is more of a "portable hotel room" than a camping trailer. I'm planning on doing my cooking outside, but a shower and toilet are mandatory.

I want to avoid a black water tank, and the complexity with it. I'd much rather use a grey-water drain to a bucket for shower runoff and sink runoff, and have a fully-enclosed toilet unit that I can take care of separately. I've seen a few of these units around the forum, but never seen any information... Where can I get one, what do they cost, what are advantages/disadvantages?

Thanks,

[Anthony J Grant]

I'm using a caset type toilet in my build. Off the top of my head I think the flush tank is 2 gallon with a hand pump and the wast tank is 3 gallon. Overall easy to use and clean and not too expensive. You can spend a lot more on higher end models and they still dont clean themself. I spent around $90 on mine. Any place that sells camping gear will have them.

[Miriam C.]

There are several types out so look around. Our first came from Sears and cost $100......years ago. They are cheaper now. The first one had an arm for dumping and it seemed to take forever to clean. It didn't not leak though cause the arm was on top.

The second one has a screw on lid out the back and is easier to clean/ dump. Ya gotta get the lid on really good though......They all need cleaning and dumping. The kids also have a Wally World special with a bucket in it. It works just as well but needs dumping more often. We use bags for it so cleaning is easier......



Oh and you can get different size black water tanks so the height is variable.......

[48Rob]

Hi Dave,

Portable toilets can be had online, and at sporting goods stores and RV places.
Here is a sampling;
http://www.google.com/products?q=port+a+pot&hl=en&aq=f

They generally cost between $75.00 and $175.00

If you are a tall person, choose a tall model.
Some are very short and uncomfortable at best.
Sizes are listed online for each model.
Good practice to find a box, bucket, or other object the same height and try sitting on it first.

Some models have a small capacity, and some brag about holding 5 gallons.
5 gallons isn't a lot of weight if you are young and strong, but carrying that much a hundred yards or so to the pit toilet to empty it can be a workout for some.

There are basic models that have a bellows pump for flushing, and nicer ones that use a couple D batteries for "push button" flushing (worth the extra cost for me).

Cleaning the tank after dumping the contents is a crappy job no matter how you look at it.
Take a gallon of water in another jug for rinsing.
I haven't tried it yet, but am thinking about spraying the inside of the holding tank with silicone spray.
Sticky stuff sticks well to plastic...

As for cleaning or keeping them clean while in use in the trailer, you have a couple options.
One is to use plastic bags.
Another is to scrub the plastic "bowl" after each use.
Most inexpensive portables use plastic because of weight, things stick to plastic much more so than your china toilet at home...

Though not mentioned these days, it was common in the 50's when trailer toilets first started appearing regularly to have "instructions" on how to use your toilet.

I can't remember where I put my copy, but the idea is simple enough and works very well!

Just before use, "flush" just enough water into the bowl to wet it, and then lay a few sheets of toilet paper into the bowl to cover the area where you will "go".
The paper will stick to the wetted bowl, and the paper will hold the contents.

A portable differs from a home toilet in that there are two operations, one is to open the valve that allows the contents to fall from the bowl to the storage tank, and the other is the flushing.
So, you open the valve and the paper and contents slide down the hole, then you "flush" to rinse the bowl, then you close the valve.

Without using the wetted bowl and paper trick, contents can be difficult to "rinse" off the plastic as they will not "slide" down the hole...

Rob

[synaps3]

If they involve that much cleaning, I might just use a black water tank. It sounds like that and the plumbing will only be a couple hundred more.

Thanks for all the information, guys (and girls!)

[kirkman]

Then of course there is this option!
http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/sawdustoilet.html

[48Rob]

Dave,

A portable is less work than emptying a black water tank.

With a blackwater system, you have to drive to to dump station, get a flexible hose out, hook it up, dump the tank, rinse the tank, rinse the hose, store the hose, then clean the bits off your shoes...

No doubt about it, bathroom duty is an unpleasant, and sometimes messy job.

But, for some it is worth it in exchange for having their own clean place to go, in private, without having strangers watch/wait for you.
Rainy days are also a time indoor plumbing will be appreciated.

The plumbing, with tanks, vents, hoses, rinsing wand, toilet, etc, will likely be 400-500 more.

Rob

[danlott]

Dumping a black water tank is no fun, just like Rob explained. I will share my first black water tank dumping story, so hopefully nobody will repeat it.

I knew the basics, though no one had ever shown me or explained it to me. I knew you connected the hose and opened the valve to empty. Follow that with the required flushing of the tank, then flushing the hose. After flushing the hose you drag it around and fish it back into the holder.

The part that seemed to bother me the most was flushing the hose and dragging it around and stuffing it back into the holder. I had do desire to touch the hose after our stuff drained through it.

Upon pulling into the dump station for the first time I was pleasantly surprised to find that you pulled over a catch basin and there was a pedal that you could step on that turned on the water to flush the basin into the dump hole. This was all contained in a neat little area.

Since I could pull right over the catch basin, I could also position the tank dump hose connection directly over the basin. I determined that I could position the connection and would not have to even mess with the dump hose. I could just dump the stuff and use the handy pedal to turn on the water and flush the stuff down the hole. Brilliant idea!!!!

The position of my dump valve is the same as most dump valves, directly behind the dump hose connection. I was very careful to position myself so that I was as far away as possible, but still able to reach the dump valve. This basically left me lying across the trailer tongue with my head about 10 inches off the ground so I could see to reach the valve.

I tried opening the valve. I had never opened the valve before and did not realize how much force was required to open this particular valve. I really had to get a good grip on the handle. After trying to open it again, I realized that I would have to really give it a firm jerk to unseat it. I changed my position enough to allow me to get more leverage. This left me basically lying on the ground, under the tongue, again stretched out as much as possible to remain clear of the dumping process.

Well I jerked and the valve came right open..........

Let me tell you that when the $hiitttttt hits the ground, it really hits the ground. It was like a volcano in reverse. I was maybe 3 feet from the dump hose connection, but I might as well have been directly under it. If scenes of Robin Williams in "RV" come to mind you are not far off.

After getting out from under the trailer tongue I turned around to see my wife, who was watching the whole time, bent over on the other side of the trailer empting her stomach contents.

Beside the pedal that flushed the catch basin was a hose connection. The only problem was that I had not got the hose out of the inside of the trailer, since I would not need it due to not having to flush out the drain hose.

After my wife composed herself enough she retrieved the hose from the trailer. I then had to hook up the hose and rinse myself off, followed by a more through wash down by my wife.

Luckily the catch basin had a handy pedal that allowed me to quickly flush the stuff into the dump hole.

Dan

[Larwyn]

If I had to choose between emptying the 30 gallon black water tank on my 5th wheel and emptying the 2 gallon tank on my portable, I would choose the 30 gallon tank every time. Emptying the tank on an RV can be done without exposure to the contents much more easily than emptying a portable toilet tank. It did, however, come as quite a surprise that black water tank maintenance required more aftermarket accessories and supplies than any other system on the entire trailer. It is amazing how quickly a 30 gallon tank can fill if you do not learn to say no to friends and neighbors in your group though. I no longer own the 5'er so I carry a portable toilet, but it is only used when there is no other option and friends an neighbors are on their own.

[Noob]

... It did, however, come as quite a surprise that black water tank maintenance required more aftermarket accessories and supplies than any other system on the entire trailer. ...but it is only used when there is no other option ...

&




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[StPatron]

I've been using a portable unit for many years now and am pleased with it, well,,,, as pleased as you can get with a porta-potty. It's one of those trade-off deals.

There are some tricks that will help, 48Rob covered those well, and the new and improved chemicals really are improved. I use pre-measured, dissolving chemical packets that are readily available.

As far as emptying it goes, it's not pleasant but,,, what's the word,, tolerable? You carry the unit to the dump facility, separate the seat area from the holding tank, swing out the emptying tube, unscrew the cap, extinguish all smoking materials, stand back at arms length, shout "ALL CLEAR" and dump. Then, fill it with some water, replace cap, slosh it around and empty again. Put the two units back together, add the flush water and a chemical packet and you're back in,,, business. A side-bet on who does the emptying chore can be fun given the right conditions,,, Keeping a good sense of humor is of utmost importance.

Like you, I'm also designing a shower/pottty closet and am wanting to avoid a standard grey water tank, so I'm improvising by using a run of PVC attached underneath the trailer. A 4 ft. run of 4" diam PVC, for example, will provide a 3 gal "holding tank". Standard sink drain in the shower floor, connected to a length of PVC that exits to the back of the trailer and is then capped off. To keep contents from sloshing back up in the shower, rubber sink drain stopper. KISS principle.

[teardrop_focus]

StPatrón

You carry the unit to the dump facility, separate the seat area from the holding tank, swing out the emptying tube, unscrew the cap, extinguish all smoking materials, stand back at arms length, shout "ALL CLEAR" and dump. Then, fill it with some water, replace cap, slosh it around and empty again. Put the two units back together, add the flush water and a chemical packet and you're back in business.

Which brand and model unit is this? What was it's approx retail cost? What's the approx weight when cleaned and prepared but unused? How much does **** weigh?



Okay, forget I asked that last question...



Thanks! and I hope that any answers would also benefit the original poster (synaps3).

[StPatron]

It's a Thetford, available at WM. Under 100 bucks, maybe $80 now. I don't have an exact weight on the empty unit, easily carried. It gets heavier with use,,,

Makes a fine seat when closed, I use it as a seat in my inflatable sportboat where space is at a premium.

[synaps3]

Dan... You poor soul.

Based on everyone's thoughts and recommendations, I've determined two options:

Buy a simple wal-mart thetford...

Or use a standalone black /grey water system. I can't justify spending hundreds of dollars on a tank, so I'll probably retrofit something from a scrap yard.

To give you an idea, I'll probably be using something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Barker-4-Wheel-42-Gallon-Tote-Along-Tank-Portable_W0QQitemZ270529404744QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3efccf1f48

My toilet will have a separate, flexible line to a small version of the above. My grey water will probably drain into a large bucket, because dumping shower / sink water isn't completely disgusting...

I'll probably use a Thetford Aqua-Magic for the toilet itself. My cost for the toilet ($130) + tank ($50 max) + plumbing ($?) should be under $300.


The disadvantage of the latter is cost. Cleanup will be about the same if I use a detachable tank (see St.Patron's "procedure" above), but I'll have to empty a fixed toilet with separate tank less often. The poop will also be outside after it has been flushed, which is another plus... I still need to think it through though, because KISS is always a good strategy.

[48Rob]

but I'll have to empty a fixed toilet with separate tank less often

Maybe...

It is a lot easier to use more water while flushing a "regular" toilet than a portable.
But if you're careful, you can probably make the system work well for you!

I have a small holding "tank" made of PVC pipe under the trailer (part of the drain system) that holds around 4-5 gallons of Graywater.
I too sometimes water the trees where allowed, but installed the holding capacity as some places won't allow you in if you don't have holding capacity, and there are places where I just wouldn't want to dump it, safe or not.

Rob