Frame advice

[DudKC]

Hi all. First time poster here with a question about how to get started. I would really love to go with the thrifty option like this guy did when he built his teardrop http://makeprojects.com/Project/Teardrop-Camper-Trailer/480/1.

I have found a few old popups online, where I could demo the current camper down to the frame, then rebuild a teardrop on top of it, but most of them are too big I'm afraid. The frame on one I am considering buying is 6.5 x 11. My cars towing capacity without trailer brakes is 1000 lbs. I think a teardrop on top of that frame would be too heavy. Would the trailer still pull OK if we cut off about 2 feet from the backside making it 6.5 x 9? Really not sure if that is even possible at this point, just a thought.

What are your guys' thoughts on the weight of it, how strictly I should adhere to my car's towing capacity, the thought of doing this on the cheap, etc. Thanks for reading, any replies will be appreciated.

[Shadow Catcher]

It seems to me most home built tears are built like tanks when they should be built like aircraft!
Depending on the construction of the donor frame you can cut away whatever you do not need and as you indicated you want to shorten a frame, that may well work out best. Consider however that if the braking on your car is that marginal that you may well need brakes, it is better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

[bobhenry]

I have found a few old popups online, where I could demo the current camper down to the frame, then rebuild a teardrop on top of it, but most of them are too big I'm afraid. The frame on one I am considering buying is 6.5 x 11. My cars towing capacity without trailer brakes is 1000 lbs. I think a teardrop on top of that frame would be too heavy. Would the trailer still pull OK if we cut off about 2 feet from the backside making it 6.5 x 9? Really not sure if that is even possible at this point, just a thought.

What are your guys' thoughts on the weight of it, how strictly I should adhere to my car's towing capacity, the thought of doing this on the cheap, etc. Thanks for reading, any replies will be appreciated.

The towing capacity of most american cars and trucks are greatly reduced to protect from liability issues. If you are a good and cautious driver you and your car can push those numbers by 50% or more. I tow 1400 lbs with 2 vehicles that are "not rated to tow". Many on this forum have informed me my death is emanate but I have disappointed them so far.







As to your donor popup frame most I have seen have a rather sturdy inner frame then a rather flimsey 18" to 24" bumper extention. This is worthless for support and might as well be removed. On many the sides are extended with outriggers. A small light weight gage material like small wings some will have an outer bump rail some will not. This material may be removed as well AS LONG AS the axle and springs are attached to a much heavier inner frame rail. One I have demoed could have been a 5x8 or 5x9 very easily. A sawsall and a good metal cutting blade is the only equipment required.

P.S. Yes now that I have a new pickup I tow with it but I can and do tow with these vehicles as well.

[DudKC]

Thank you very much for the responses. I am going to look into pursuing this route for my frame now. Thanks again.

[Bucko6]

You have a lot to consider. First, don't exceed your vehicles rated tow capacity. Don't forget that most manufactures assume a 150# operator. Throw in a passenger and a weekends worth of camping stuff and you don't have much capacity left.

I built a 6' x 8' tear from a pop up trailer frame. 3/4 in ply floors and side walls, full gally, etc. When done, its empty weight was 880#. As others have said, overbuilt. By the way, the frame I had would have easially cut down to 4' wide to make a 4' x 8' tear. If you go wiht a 4' x 8' and don't overbuild, pack you might bring it in at about 600#. Pack light. I imagine other builders can provide weights of their rigs too.

Good luck!

[DudKC]

I looked at the popup I am considering tonight at the frame is 6'3" x 9'10" from the outside of the rails. I was hoping to keep Shadow Catcher's advice ("most home built tears are built like tanks when they should be built like aircraft") in mind and keep the weight down.

I actually just read Weirdnerd's build thread, and his weighed in at 1740# after all was said and done. His thread on another website is the inspiration for my trailer http://makeprojects.com/Project/Teardrop-Camper-Trailer/480/1.

If it ends up being too heavy are trailer brakes that hard to install? The Subaru has either a 2,000 or 2,700 # capacity with brakes.

[Miriam C.]

I made mine on a similar frame and it ended an amazing 1700+. I didn't build a tank and seriously doubt I could have gotten it to come in under 1500#. Course it was full of goodies too.

[DudKC]

1700+ is kind of what I'm expecting now. Would plastic instead of plywood for the roof/hatch make it lighter?

[Dusty82]

Depending on the pop-up, it may already have brakes. A look at the back side of the wheel will tell the tale. If you see a backing plate with wires coming out of the bottom half of it, it has brakes. Those wires may or may not be hooked to anything on the trailer's wiring harness. If you see a square flange with 4 holes in it and nothing bolted to it, and can see the back of the wheel hub, it doesn't have brakes.

The vast majority of pop-ups used Dexter axles or torque tubes, and brakes are still available for just about all of their products. Look for a metal tag wrapped around the axle - that tag will give you the model number and weight rating of the axle. A visit to Dexter's website with that model number will tell you if brakes are available for that particular axle.

I know that Coleman/Fleetwood trailer frames are made of rectangular tubing and the older models (70s) have crossmembers made of C channel. The normal measurement across the frame, from the outside of one frame rail to the outside of the other, is 53 inches. The crossmembers can be easily trimmed down to that width if need be.

I have a stripped down 1978 Coleman Saratoga chassis (without brakes) in my back yard, eagerly awaiting a build, and I'll take some pictures of it for you tomorrow if you'd like. At least that way you can get an idea as to what they look like in better detail before buying one and stripping it yourself.

Speaking of buying, keep your eyes on Craigslist's free section. I've seen a few free pop-ups advertised in that section - at least around here.

EDIT: The pop-up frame in the link you posted is not a Coleman/Fleetwood - Coleman/Fleetwoods aren't built that way. It looks like a Starcraft, but I'm not 100% certain. That frame would be a bit tougher to make narrower of need be.

[kennyrayandersen]

rethink the frame. What you want to build is something light that your little car can tow. I think the pop=up frames are pretty heavy from everything I read about them.

[Yota Bill]

even though most cars CAN tow more then they are rated for, that does not make it legal. Towing over the rated capacity can get you into a very interesting discussion with a DOT officer.
Laws for CDL's are getting much stricter, and they are going after non-CDL tow-ers as well. I am not sure what the fines and/or penalties would be, but personally, I would rather not find out.


I find it insanely funny how many people here were toting the "dont break the law" banner in the thread about traffic violation fines, yet so many are breaking the law by towing above thier vehicles rated capacity.

[DudKC]

The frame in the links I provided is a starcraft, I think. The popup I am considering buying is a starcraft and the frame looks just like the one in the links. After taking a good look at it last night, I agree it will be difficult, if at all possible, to cut it down in size.

As far as the towing capacity, I'm not worried about it because the capacity is 1000 without trailer brakes, 2700 with trailer brakes. I'm sure we can make this less than 2700 lbs, using the tank vs aircraft thought as our mantra during the build. I will look into the axle to see if brakes are available.

Any thoughts on using frp for the skin as opposed to plywood, and the effect on weight?

[bobhenry]

even though most cars CAN tow more then they are rated for, that does not make it legal. Towing over the rated capacity can get you into a very interesting discussion with a DOT officer.
Laws for CDL's are getting much stricter, and they are going after non-CDL tow-ers as well. I am not sure what the fines and/or penalties would be, but personally, I would rather not find out.


I find it insanely funny how many people here were toting the "dont break the law" banner in the thread about traffic violation fines, yet so many are breaking the law by towing above thier vehicles rated capacity.

Bill :

Can you copy the exact verbage of that law I could not find it as a law in the Indiana DOT site OR the Indiana BMV site. I would like to see how your state approaches it !

[bve]

even though most cars CAN tow more then they are rated for, that does not make it legal. Towing over the rated capacity can get you into a very interesting discussion with a DOT officer.
Laws for CDL's are getting much stricter, and they are going after non-CDL tow-ers as well. I am not sure what the fines and/or penalties would be, but personally, I would rather not find out.

I find it insanely funny how many people here were toting the "dont break the law" banner in the thread about traffic violation fines, yet so many are breaking the law by towing above thier vehicles rated capacity.

Bill :

Can you copy the exact verbage of that law I could not find it as a law in the Indiana DOT site OR the Indiana BMV site. I would like to see how your state approaches it !

Regardless of how a state or province (I'm Canadian) views or legislates it, I'm quite sure ANY insurance company in the case of an accident, would find anyone towing something which exceeds the tow rating of their vehicle - at fault - REGARDLESS of the true fault.

I don't know 'who' determines fault in the U.S. or other countries, however in Canada it is the insurance agencies, in-fact, either insurer can find the 'other' party at fault. Given the propensity for litigation which the U.S. is so renowned for, I wouldn't personally attempt to tow above my rating.

[WhitneyK]

Bob,

It is more about your GVW or GVWR (gross vehicle weight) of the TV or more easily defined by your license plate wieght rating. For combination (TV & Trailer) vehicles, the legal maximum wieght is the combined wieght rating of the two plates, ie 7000# pick-up truck plate + 3000# trailer plate = 10,000# maximum combined wieght. If your combined wieght is greater than the plates will allow, then an increased TV tag is in order (more $). But, can not exceed the GVWR of the TV as listed on the door jam.

Sorry, I would have liked to provide a link to the Indiana State DOT code, but I can never find anything on Mitch's website and I have to deal with it on a regular basis too! Tried calling the local BMV, but all the phone wants to do is route you through automated directory, if you hit "0", it says "goodbye".

Hope this helps, I'll try to get more black & white proof.