Fill it Epoxy

[Chabeau]

I am getting closer to the final stage of my build. My teardrop has a plywood finish that will be treated with paint used on fishing boats.I want to fill in the screw holes before painting. I have two questions. Is fill it epoxy the same thing that is used on automobile for body fill? Is clear penetrating epoxy sealer that comes in two parts(A&B) found only at specialty stores. Staff at hardware stores like Home Depot have no idea what i'm talking about. Any advice is appreciated.

[urbanfixie]

Check out www.rotdoctor.com - I hear they are a little more expensive then other products but everything I have read about them says it is worth the money. I am using the CPES and Elasta-tuff 6000 on my project. They also offer fillers and adhesives. Good luck on your project!

[S. Heisley]

You can't get those in any hardware stores that I know of.

Fill-it is not the same as Bondo. Fill-it has little pieces of fiberglass in it, to make it a better filler. Fill-it works with CPES (Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer). You put the CPES on first. Both can be purchased through the Internet or by phone and they get to you fairly quickly...I'm guessing within 5 business days.

You can get both here:

http://www.rotdoctor.com/order/orders.html

While the above products are very good, they aren't cheap. Others may chime in with solutions that they will swear by and may be as good while costing less...I don't know.

[LWW]

You get what you pay for. I've only used polyester resin once and I haven't used it since. I use West System Epoxy for everything I do in glass since discovering it 18 years ago. Simple mix ratio and easy to apply and yes it is expensive and yes it does work. Just my experience yours may be different. Larryw

[asianflava]

I use West System Epoxy for everything I do in glass since discovering it 18 years ago. Simple mix ratio and easy to apply and yes it is expensive and yes it does work. Just my experience yours may be different. Larryw

I used West also. Just mix some fillers and it will turn into an adhesive or a filler. I used micro fibers to bond the faces to my "stud wall" for sandwich walls. Mix it with micro bubbles and it is a filler like bondo.

[S. Heisley]

You get what you pay for. I've only used polyester resin once and I haven't used it since. I use West System Epoxy for everything I do in glass since discovering it 18 years ago. Simple mix ratio and easy to apply and yes it is expensive and yes it does work. Just my experience yours may be different. Larryw

Yes, LWW, many people swear by West System Epoxy and Raka Epoxy.

Just to set the record straight, CPES is not polyester. It is made with actual tree sap derivatives, which, I think, is why it soaks in into the wood and protects so well. However, when working with layered plywood, it may not matter which product is used. CPES will make a difference on solid wood (not glued layers).

Warning: Wood and Plywood is much easier to cut before it is epoxied and epoxying it after cutting allows for coating the cut ends as well.

[Chabeau]

Thank you for your prompt replies. I'm hoping that someone will have other alternatives closer to the east coast. The rot doctor does not ship orders outside the United States if less than $800.00 worth of product is purchased. Building this teardrop has been really been a challenge trying to find the materials locally. So far I've overcome these obstacles.Winter is now my biggest obstacle, i'm getting the materials ready for next spring.

[S. Heisley]

I don't know where they ship to but here is Raka:

http://www.raka.com/

This company carries West System but they also carry CPES and I believe they are on the East coast:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/main.do

And, here is West System's website:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/where-to-buy/

[asianflava]

You can find epoxies at boating/marine supply stores.

[Juneaudave]

You might want to check prices and shipping from Newfound Woodworks in Bristol New Hampshire. They carry System Three and MAS epoxies. I've purchased a lot of MAS from them and can highly recommend that brand and their service...

[Larry C]

I have previously kept silent on this subject not wanting to start fanning the flames, but when I see so many new members believing that a certain expensive product is a must for their build, I feel I should add my opinion. I know this will surely start the flames, but remember it's is just my opinion, and is worth exactly what you paid for it, your mileage may vary, etc.

When I came to this forum from boat building for 25 years, I was surprised by the CPES following on this forum. Over the years on many boat building forums, the subject of CPES has come up from time to time. It usually starts a lively discussion that ends in the consensus that it is just "Snake Oil" and regular epoxy is superior, and much less expensive. Just go to any boat building forum and search CPES or open a new discussion, and see what comes up.

I have used Wests, System Three, Raka, MAS, and others. These are just regular epoxies, and have all worked great, and for me have held up to years of use, as they have on thousands and thousands of boats for at least a half century.

Why would anyone building a teardrop trailer using new wood want to use a product that is by design intended for wood rot repair, especially when it's much more expensive than the right product to be using.


If CPES was actually as wonderful as the sales-pitch says it is why are there no major competitors? Through recorded business history, anything that has such a strong market share and price structure as CPES, also has competitors and imitators! Also why is this copyrighted and patented (?) miracle cure sold under so many names: Smith&Co CPES, MultiWoodPrime, Lingu, RotDoctor CPES, LiquidWood? Why not just CPES, worldwide?

Larry C

[S. Heisley]

I have previously kept silent on this subject not wanting to start fanning the flames, but when I see so many new members believing that a certain expensive product is a must for their build, I feel I should add my opinion. I know this will surely start the flames, but remember it's is just my opinion, and is worth exactly what you paid for it, your mileage may vary, etc.

When I came to this forum from boat building for 25 years, I was surprised by the CPES following on this forum. Over the years on many boat building forums, the subject of CPES has come up from time to time. It usually starts a lively discussion that ends in the consensus that it is just "Snake Oil" and regular epoxy is superior, and much less expensive. Just go to any boat building forum and search CPES or open a new discussion, and see what comes up.

I have used Wests, System Three, Raka, MAS, and others. These are just regular epoxies, and have all worked great, and for me have held up to years of use, as they have on thousands and thousands of boats for at least a half century.

Why would anyone building a teardrop trailer using new wood want to use a product that is by design intended for wood rot repair, especially when it's much more expensive than the right product to be using.


If CPES was actually as wonderful as the sales-pitch says it is why are there no major competitors? Through recorded business history, anything that has such a strong market share and price structure as CPES, also has competitors and imitators! Also why is this copyrighted and patented (?) miracle cure sold under so many names: Smith&Co CPES, MultiWoodPrime, Lingu, RotDoctor CPES, LiquidWood? Why not just CPES, worldwide?

Larry C

Larry C, you seem to be unhappy with this discussion thread. From what I see, there is no reason to be such. We, here on the forum, have given Chabeau alternate sources for other epoxy products and have even stated that there are other products that will work well on plywood and wood.

You also seem confused, asking about various names, thinking that a certain product has many. For this, I quote below:

Hello. I'm Steve Smith. I'm the guy who invented Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer [also known as CPES], back in 1972. I've gathered up and organized quite a bit of information about it, since then.

I originally invented it as a solution to slightly deteriorated wood. It turned out it also was (I modestly assert) the World's Greatest Primer for paint or varnish on wood.

It is distributed by Smith & Co. under two names, CPES (above) and MultiWoodPrime. The MultiWoodPrime website http://www.multiwoodprime.com/ has information about its benefits on new or sound wood. There is information at the main company website http://www.smithandcompany.org/ about the product and its use in the restoration of wood. One of my distributors is The Rot Doctor, who serves the general public with Internet sales.

The underlying science of how it works is given at http://www.woodrestoration.com/. There you can see time-lapse photographs,pictures thru microscopes, mechanical tests and even an open standard for this kind of product.

The information at those websites should answer a lot of your questions. If it makes new ones, just ask.

Steve Smith

The above quoted from:

http://tnttt.com/viewto ... teve+smith

I do hope this helps stop any possible confusion. Please take any further questions and comments related to the product in question to Mr. Smith, who happens to be a forum member.

[Larry C]

Larry C, you seem to be unhappy with this discussion thread. From what I see, there is no reason to be such. We, here on the forum, have given Chabeau alternate sources for other epoxy products and have even stated that there are other products that will work well on plywood and wood.

You also seem confused, asking about various names, thinking that a certain product has many. For this, I quote below:

Hello. I'm Steve Smith. I'm the guy who invented Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer [also known as CPES], back in 1972. I've gathered up and organized quite a bit of information about it, since then.

I originally invented it as a solution to slightly deteriorated wood. It turned out it also was (I modestly assert) the World's Greatest Primer for paint or varnish on wood.

It is distributed by Smith & Co. under two names, CPES (above) and MultiWoodPrime. The MultiWoodPrime website http://www.multiwoodprime.com/ has information about its benefits on new or sound wood. There is information at the main company website http://www.smithandcompany.org/ about the product and its use in the restoration of wood. One of my distributors is The Rot Doctor, who serves the general public with Internet sales.

The underlying science of how it works is given at http://www.woodrestoration.com/. There you can see time-lapse photographs,pictures thru microscopes, mechanical tests and even an open standard for this kind of product.

The information at those websites should answer a lot of your questions. If it makes new ones, just ask.

Steve Smith

The above quoted from:

http://tnttt.com/viewto ... teve+smith

I do hope this helps stop any possible confusion. Please take any further questions and comments related to the product in question to Mr. Smith, who happens to be a forum member.

Sharon,
Unhappy with the discussion thread, on the contrary, I am more than happy to HELP fellow members make wise decisions. I am just making my contribution to the same thread that you are. You refer to "We, here on the forum" (we=you) as if I am not a member. I feel I have as much
right to contribute as you have.

As far as being confused about multiple names for the same product, I am not confused at all, I see the reasons very clearly.

Also, this is a discussion thread, why would I take further comments to a someone that profits from the sale of a product to forum members? I already have an opinion that I am stating, just as you are. This is an open forum with many different opinions. Shouldn't we hear them all?

Please, please let free speech prevail!

Have a nice day....

[LWW]

Hey guys I don't know if one is better than the other. I've only use the West System because you can get it at any boat store or supply. It's all I've ever used with the exception of the one time I used some polyester resin on my boats and that stuff was nasty to use. I just like it because I'm impatitent and don't like waiting for the mail man to bring me my goodies, dern govment workers, and that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Larryw

[S. Heisley]

Latrry C wrote:

Sharon,
Unhappy with the discussion thread, on the contrary, I am more than happy to HELP fellow members make wise decisions. I am just making my contribution to the same thread that you are. You refer to "We, here on the forum" (we=you) as if I am not a member. I feel I have as much
right to contribute as you have.

Larry, you are entirely correct with the above quoted statements. I did not mean to make you feel that you are not a member. Of course you are. I apologize if I made you feel less than that. "We, here on the forum..." was not meant the way you took it but rather that people on the forum had already offered solutions other than CPES. I looked but did not see where you had offered a solution before that area where I quoted your statements previously and commented the "We, here on the forum". Maybe I missed something.

I do hope you have a good rest of the evening and feel better now.
Life is too short to feel slighted or unhappy even for a minute.