5x10 Benroy axle placement/height

[Freddy the Element]

Hi,

I'm starting to scheme up a teardrop that will be a 5x10 Benroy to tow with my Honda Element and I'm at the frame/axle stage. I've read through the excellent articles posted here, but I still have a question.

I'll essentially be replicating jfba's build (viewtopic.php?t=41159) but will be skinning it with aluminum. However, one of the things I love about the classic Benroy is the placement of the axle further back and how it is lower slung. You can see by jfba's that his axle is further forward with more clearance. I want more of a "squished"/compact version like the original, only 10' long versus 8'. jfba's is lovely, but it just looks too tall to me.

Was the original Benroy's axle improperly located? Is jfba's in the right place? Can I have a 5x10 ride lower than jfba's, or was he smart in doing that?

Thanks very much for your help.

- Cass

Benroy%20is%20finished%20and%20the%20Wife%20named%20her%20Sentimental%20Journey.jpg (228.89 KiB) Viewed 1280 times

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[KCStudly]

Looks to me like the woodie is just longer over all with the axle in the same relative position related to the front (i.e. tha galley sticks out further).

On the height thing torsion style axles can get you lower and you can also have the side wall skirt down further towards the ground w/o actully lowering the frame height. Stick with smaller diameter wheels and tires, too.

Doug Hodder has built some nice low campers. You may want to check out his stuff. In fact, you should check out his stuff just because it is fine work to be admired.

Good luck. Just be careful the longer you go the more likely you are to drag on road undulations and transitions (driveways, gullies and such), and this only gets worse when you go lower.

Take a look at Terry's standie. He is long and low but compensates to some degree by tapering up from his door step in height to the front and rear. Not exactly the lines of a traditional Benroy, but it all depends on how low you want to go and the conditions you plan to drive in. For some one who lives in Florida where it's generally flat, no big deal. Vermont? Probably want a little more margin.

[Freddy the Element]

Looks to me like the woodie is just longer over all with the axle in the same relative position related to the front (i.e. tha galley sticks out further).

It is in the same relative position to the front, but not the rear -- could the axle go back further like the classic Benroy (which is only about 1'-2' from the bumper). I'm guessing not as the tongue weight would be too high.

"Corncountry" built a similar design -- gallery/image_page.php?album_id=689&image_id=79394 -- looks like his is dropped lower too and the wheel is in roughly the same position. Keep thinking I should just drive out to Iowa and buy it . . .

[KCStudly]

Seek out Angib's trailer weight balance suggestions (I think there's a sticky near the top of the General Discussion forum). There is an excel spread sheet that let's you put in your known weights and locations of their centers of gravity to help calculate tongue weight. Most use 10-15% of overall trailer weight for recommended tongue weight, although Europe and some like to go lighter.

I just used the recommended rule of thumb

According to teardrop rules of thumb (see outback.com) it should be 34.5 from the rear on an 8' trailer, and add 6" for every foot. So for your 5x9 it would be 40.5" from the rear.

(quoted from pahrumpcaveman's post here) and will shift my battery (or two) and water storage around to make any adjustments needed.

If you keep it short and light, or if you have a bunch of heavy stuff behind your axle (water jugs, cast iron cookware, 12v batteries, cooler full of ice, etc.) you would probably be okay. From what I have read you don't want to have a bunch of weight hanging way back from the axle, but I don't think that would apply in your case, since any weight you have behind the axle will also be close to it.

Also depends on your tow rig's capabilities. Say your camper ends up at 1200 lbs loaded, and your short rear/long front puts a heavy 20-25% (240-300 lbs) up front; if you are pulling with an F150 or Explorer, then it's probably not so bad as if you were towing with a Mini, Miata or RAV4. What's the tongue weight and tow limitation on your Element?

[halfdome, Danny]

Cass, There's a 40-60% rule that works quite well with regards to axle placement.
The 60% goes forward.
If you have a tongue box it complicates it some. Danny

[mckenney56]

I think it is all about weight distribution. You have to figure out how much weight is in the galley and what exactly in that box on the tongue. The older design might have nothing in the front of the cabin but a mattress, where the new one might have a cabinet full of stuff in the front and then the mattress. I think the newer version is actually longer. The older design sleeping area might extend all the way to the tail and be only 6.5 feet total length where the newer one might be 8 feet. I think the rule is the tongue weight should be 10% of the total weight. The owner of the newer one might have added that tongue box so he could shift some of the weight forward to meet that rule.

[eamarquardt]

I think it is all about weight distribution.

The further back you place your axle the better the trailer will "trail". You just shouldn't exceed the tongue weight limit for your vehicle and hitch setup. Think of how far back the axles on "5th wheel" trailers are. Same-o, same-o.

You can always build your trailer and mount the axle last. See my album.

Cheers,

Gus

[CliffinGA]

I believe the plans on here call for it to be 33% from the back mine is a lil farther forward but that was because I was just lazy and didn't have the know how to move it. They do make drop axle and it will lower it but then you have to think about it being to low to the ground. On my first tear with 12" tires it was too low and you couldn't use the stabilizer under it or jack it off the ground,

Cliff

[Freddy the Element]

\What's the tongue weight and tow limitation on your Element?

It's 150/1500. I have to be careful with this build to keep things light and well-balanced! But people DO pull teardrops with Elements with little problem. My concern is going up to the Sierra, which is where I'll be taking my teardrop at least 70% of the time. Don't want to blow out my engine or transmission -- or, almost as bad, be going at 25 mph with 10 cars honking behind me . . .

I think I will play it smart and just follow function over form on this one and bring the axle further forward, which makes sense -- but following form over function is not easy for me, aesthetics are important to me . . .

[Freddy the Element]

Cass, There's a 40-60% rule that works quite well with regards to axle placement.
The 60% goes forward.
If you have a tongue box it complicates it some. Danny

Thanks Danny, I know I can count on you for sage advice. The excel spreadsheet provided on tnttt.com for axle placement says about 35-40% back from the rear, and that's exactly where jfba and corncountry appear to have placed theirs. I think I'll do the same, but probably have a drop axle and paneling covering the frame a bit -- I don't want a lowrider by any means, but I think I want it to be a bit lower. I don't go offroad anyways (not intentionally that is).

- Cass

[corncountry]

Cass, There's a 40-60% rule that works quite well with regards to axle placement.
The 60% goes forward.
If you have a tongue box it complicates it some. Danny

Thanks Danny, I know I can count on you for sage advice. The excel spreadsheet provided on tnttt.com for axle placement says about 35-40% back from the rear, and that's exactly where jfba and corncountry appear to have placed theirs. I think I'll do the same, but probably have a drop axle and paneling covering the frame a bit -- I don't want a lowrider by any means, but I think I want it to be a bit lower. I don't go offroad anyways (not intentionally that is).

- Cass

Cass
I built my own spring axle. It has a 3" drop. I have the weight of an A/C unit and battery behind the axle. This didn't give me quite enough tongue weight so I added the spare tire to the front. This gave me about 110 lbs. on the tongue. It tows great at this weight.

Jim

[mckenney56]

\What's the tongue weight and tow limitation on your Element?

It's 150/1500. I have to be careful with this build to keep things light and well-balanced! But people DO pull teardrops with Elements with little problem. My concern is going up to the Sierra, which is where I'll be taking my teardrop at least 70% of the time. Don't want to blow out my engine or transmission -- or, almost as bad, be going at 25 mph with 10 cars honking behind me . . .

I think I will play it smart and just follow function over form on this one and bring the axle further forward, which makes sense -- but following form over function is not easy for me, aesthetics are important to me . . .

We might want to talk a little about brakes too. When we come down out of the mountains whatever the tear weighs will be testing them big time.

[eamarquardt]

My concern is going up to the Sierra, which is where I'll be taking my teardrop at least 70% of the time.

Getting up the hill alive is the easy part. Getting down alive is more difficult.

BRAKES.

Cheers,

Gus