The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby bonnie » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:24 am

KC, that looks sharp! It's great to see your project coming along.

Bogo, The batting idea is great.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:28 am

Bogo, do you think that the bubble wrap is the wrong material to use for the batting?

It seems to work well, and the thing I like about it is that any small amounts of glue that does get on it peels off pretty easily.

I've just got this last bulkhead panel to skin (just the back side) and I think I am done with the vacuum glue ups. I don't think I will be using it for the canvas.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:20 am

KC , it is an interesting idea to think of vacuum bagging the canvas.... :thinking: That may (or may not ) give you a really smoooooth skin ...well fastened to the substrate ... Certainly is worth a “test” , since you’re set up for it already !!!
Guess the question is will the vacuum suck out the glue solvent (water for T2 or Gripper) enough for it to dry properly ? Seems so eh ... I dunno’ ??? :NC
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:18 am

Thanks, Bonnie!

Don't think of the vacuum bagging using a shop vac as a total vacuum (14.5 psi depression), think of it more like a couple of lbs of depression. I don't think it has any perceptible affect on the moisture or drying of the glue.

If there is a wrinkle or crease in the plastic that I can get a hold of I can lift it maybe an inch or so until the area that I am lifting gets to be maybe 8 square inches, or so. At that point I don't have enough grip to lift the plastic any further w/o digging my fingernails in and creating a nick.

I'm guessing maybe 2 to 3 psi. But it is still way more total "weight" (force) and uniformly applied than I would get by piling things on.

Does the canvas really need to be pressed down or just sort of pasted on?
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Bogo » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:08 am

You could use the bubble wrap as a release cloth.

For fiberglass work they have a roller that is alternating small and large disks. The large disks force the fibers down into the epoxy while the small ones allow the epoxy to bleed up through the fibers to the surface. You could make your own out of alternating regular, and fender washers over a bolt, but you may have more in parts than they cost.
Image from: http://www.fiberglassflorida.com/fiberg ... er-33.html
A roller like that could be used to force the canvas down into the glue better. Just don't press hard enough to deform the foam underneath.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:21 am

Thanks Bogo. I am aware of those rollers, but I'm not sure that the canvas and glue are going to behave the same as the fiberglass cloth.

With the FG cloth the idea is to wet it out all in one go. With the canvas it seems to me that the people who did the roll on method did not get a lot soaking thru and everything stayed much neater during the initial application; then they came back and wet it out with the primer and paint coats.

I think I would worry about rolling little grooves in the foam and delicate spackling using one of those; that's why I was wondering if a dry paint roller used lightly on the outside of the canvas might not work just as well if not better.

I know the idea is to squeeze the fabric down into the glue, rather than roll the glue out from between the two surfaces, so maybe the paint roller would not work as good as I would like.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:46 am

KC, for our humble purpose, just a really good hand smoothing does the trick... and like you say , not being wetted like FG , it isn’t messy to do ... dry on top ... :thumbsup:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:07 am

Wow, lots of activity on the forums. Had to dig down to get to TPCE build thread.

Let’s see, where are we?

Oh yes, Monday. On Monday I went ahead and glued the rear panels onto the bulkhead wall. It was hot and humid, but not as hot and humid as the weekend, and being after the heat of the afternoon sun, I thought I could manage it. Trick is getting it done before the glue flashes off (with the fan turned off) and getting it under the pressure of the vacuum bag. A few things seemed to conspire against me.

I was trying to be conservative with the glue application to make sure that the wood could absorb all of the moisture. My initial test was just rolling glue onto the foam side, but after having some loose areas on the doors (and regluing the edges) I had been rolling both sides, foam and ply with a thin coat.

The shop vac has been being used heavily, and when I started this vacuum bagging thing I had just cleaned out the tub and installed a fresh filter; probably should have serviced the vac again.

In the heat, and with the fan off, I kind of rushed, what with rolling out the four different panels individually, dealing with the finish nails used for alignment, and suffering a balky pneumatic stapler (shoots blanks far too often), I could have used more staples, and there were some minor gaps along some of the panel butt joints.

Then I cheated and only folded the far end of the bag, rather than tape the seam. That there was probably my big mistake. I could feel some areas of the bag that were not pulling down as tight as I would have liked, and by pressing on the areas where the panels butted I had a sense that they were not laying flush. Too late, too much time had passed from the first roll out of the glue. So I piled on some weight and 2x6’s that I could grab close by, but, frankly, it was hot and I just gave up schlepping. Turned the fan back on and let the vacuum run for 45 minutes to an hour.

When I pulled back the bag I was pissed! Some of the panels were loose at the edges, as if they had curled up at the butt joints and perimeter, and the fairness at the butt joints was poor; big steps between panels where the edges had glued together rather than lying flat. They would probably not level out without sanding thru the top ply and into the next layer; ugly.

I even tried using the electric iron to reactivate the glue and get the panels to lay down flatter, but the wood was just too thick and the heat could not get thru (scorched the test piece).

Oh well, if I can’t fix it I can fair it all down and paint it a solid color rather than stain and poly. Spend some more time doing “The Hodder Fix” regluing the edges.

Good time to stop and ponder options. Seriously considered ripping it right back off, but figured that would do more harm than good, and I don’t have enough Okoume to start over.

Now Wednesday; let’s go thru the motions and see if it is really that bad. Maybe I can salvage it, and if I break thru the top ply trying to fair it, then I can do a painted back splash for the counter; maybe a sunset mural behind the counter and shelves.

Out with the 100 grit on the small block and the small hobby plane (matchbox plane). Rubbed and rubbed, and shaved a tad watching all the time for any tell-tale signs that I was busting into the glue joint of the next layer of ply. Made big improvements in most areas. There were only a few areas where I started to see the dark color of the next ply glue layer and stopped before achieving a flush surface. There was one area where there was a slight gap at the joint. I left the fine sanding dust from the fairing operation; carefully tamped some masking tape on my saw dusty T-shirt (so as to weaken the tape and not lift any more grain than already sanded) and drizzled some more TB2 into the gap. Took some of the fine dust onto my finger and brushed it back into the fresh glue; wiped the excess glue and pulled the tape up quick; then sanded some more around the joint with 220 grit to kick up some more fine dust and fill the glue (hoping it might take the stain a little better than just glue. Cheating, but hey, what the heck… things don’t always work out perfectly and I AM NOT A FINISH CARPENTER! I tried to tell you.

Well, I think I managed to save it. Despite the slight variations in flush at the panel butts, I think I managed to get the rear face of the bulkhead to an acceptable state that I can stain and poly it without having to resort to super fairing, filler, and/or solid color paint.

So what? At the very back of the counter, behind the Coleman stove storage, and under the shadow of the lower shelf, there will be a little line of darkness and unfairness that you will probably never notice. Only I will know it is there (unless you look very closely… please don’t, and… oh yeah… I just told hundreds of viewers. Dam boy scouts. I’m cursed to a lifetime of honesty.)

Of course the pics don’t show any of this level of detail, but let’s have a look just the same.

Here I am rough trimming the back panels of the bulkhead. You can see the pencil line I traced, same as before, using the width of the carpenters pencil as a gauge. And you can see the advantage of the LED lighted battery powered jigsaw (love that tool!).
Image
Please disregard my barefoot feet. Even though it was cooler and less humid, it was still just too hot to stay in my work jeans and boots, and I had forgotten to bring my flip-flops… again.

Let me try to explain this next pic. At the top right you can see the cabin side skin of the bulkhead with the rabbet along the side (lower edge in pic). Then you can see the exposed frame that will be glued and screwed into the dado of the side wall at the gap in the inner side wall panels. Then you can see the galley side panel edge after rough cutting with the jigsaw… makes for a cleaner cut when the jigsaw is pulling up into the face of the panel; less splintering; and then there is the orange squiggly line, which is the extension cord laying on the floor beyond the detail that I am trying to show.
Image

Completed part of the rough cut, showing the cut contrasted between panels.
Image

After doing the rough cut, I flipped the bulkhead panel over and remembered to set the bottom bearing bit so that it would not fall in to any holes, including the wire ways under the skin (dark area in pic).
Image

After a lot of hand sanding it wasn’t looking so bad. Also note that I had routed out the bulkhead fan hole to match the other side.
Image

Used my marked up drawing to locate the wire way holes, measured twice, checked orientation twice, and drilled the holes. Used the prong on the end of the little circle compass to stab and dig the slug from the core bit out of the holes. Here is the top street side rear of the bulkhead where the hatch wires will come out and jump over to the hatch.
Image
The little blue edge of foam sticking out from under the left edge of the bulkhead is just a spacer of foam being used to hold the bulkhead up off of the work table. The blue foam visible in the hole is the core of the bulkhead where the wire way trough was routed into the foam.

Here is the back of the bulkhead skin with the fan hole and fan wire hole cut.
Image

Kind of mundane, but this is the wire way hole in the back of the bulkhead skin where the hatch actuator switch wires will pass (shown upside down, curb side on left).
Image

I won’t bother showing the holes that were drilled for the hatch actuator wires at the actuator lower bracket locations (they don’t really show up and are kind of meaningless at the moment), but here is another shot of overall progress after fairing (as best I could) and drilling all of the galley side holes.
Image

Progress is progress and I have another 3 hrs in.

Still need to reglue some areas of the edges, but much less than I had originally thought!
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:26 am

At first it always seems worse than we thought , and upon closer inspection proves to be “not so bad” ... With your skills , there’s nothing that can’t be “adjusted” ... :thumbsup: 8) ;)
KC, how about shooting a new reality show ... The Naked Foamie !!! :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:21 am

Thanks GPW. Do you see a second career as a foot model in my future? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gotta beat the heat, there's a build going on here!
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:31 am

Yes ... BEAR feet ... :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The Heat ... and the “Humility" !!! ...fries the old noodle !!! :?
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wolffarmer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:36 am

The mark of a true craftsman is how well they hide their mistakes.

;)

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:17 am

True Dat’ eh !!! I think it’s more craftsmanly to say “hide your learning experiences ".... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wolffarmer » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:32 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: ;)
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:42 am

Funny , over the years you learn what Not to Do , and the rest just comes out OK ... :D
I just learned I have to measure THREE times now ... :duh:
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