The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:12 am

Oh yeah, did I mention that we got to throw a Go Pro cam for the television production? The headband mount was duct taped to a pumpkin with several layers of duct tape then the camera was attached and wrapped with more duct tape. A nylon ribbon from a ratchet strap was added for a tail so that it would fly relatively straight (Mr. B throws knuckle balls, after all).

The footage came out awesome and we are 99% confident that they will use it for the show, maybe even in the promo ads for the show. Watch for it.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:43 am

That’s quite a machine ... :thumbsup: 8) 8) 8)
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:22 am

KC, looks like the arm broke right at the stress point .... Maybe some gussets there would help eh? or just gradually taper the join ... :thinking:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:03 am

There is actually a generous radius there, and the scab plates were added top and bottom to strengthen this area. The step was a necessary evil to allow the arms to fit into the pre-existing gap in the rope bundle (even after we wedge the rope bundle open). Also, the space allowed for rotation inside of the stanchions is limited. All of this while still being strong enough to withstand pull back forces and hope to survive the original design w/o arresting ropes (there was no way, I told them).

After seeing the breakage my first response was to propose cutting this butt section off, eliminating the stress riser. We can get more arm rotation with shorter arms in compounded mode, but for the std. bow line the arm length is about right as is. Everything is a compromise.

There's about 136000 lbs-ft of torque on each arm at full pull back. Difficult to say what that equates to in the dynamic instant of accelerating the 8 to 10 lb pumpkin. Stopping that much aluminum in a nano second isn't an easy task either.

:?

If it was a Craftsman wrench I would just take it back to Sears and get a new one. :lol:
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:23 am

Ever think of using something other for the arms ? CF/ FG , Spectra???
... or an even wackier idea , set the throw up asymmetrically ... much less return shock that way ... We’ve been a bowyer for many years now and have gone completely asymmetrical ... No “hand shock” ...it’s a string harmonics thing ... We’ll leave that to the Engineers to figure out ... :?

Pic... our latest PVC bow ... :roll: And it “shoots” ... :thumbsup:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby atahoekid » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:56 pm

impressive, yet very scary. That machine could do serious damage if not properly set up and operated. Seeing that thing can chuck a pumpkin some serious distances' I'm pretty sure i wouldn't stand too close at firing time
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:02 pm

Mel, you got that right. We are very careful about winding and unwinding the bundles, and anytime there is energy in the machine. There are no second chances. The only place safe to stand when firing is behind it.

GPW, the issue is inherent to the design of the machine. The stanchions that support the rope bundles from collapsing need to be very close to the bundles, otherwise the scutula (the big plates that bridge the stanchions and support the modioli (the washer things that hold the epizigus... the things that the rope bundle strands wrap around) would bow and collapse (... or be prohibitively heavy).

...and because the stanchions are so close to the bundles they are not far enough away from the arms... so when the arms try to follow thru after the shot, they hit the stanchions. The arresting rope mechanism is intended to slow the arm tips down and prevent this over travel. Would the asymmetrical arms tend to pull the pumpkin off of the center line? Remember, we do not have an arrow knock to guide.

The special carbon fiber arms that preceded these (that were made be a Sikorsky worker who makes helicopter rotors and claimed that they would never break) broke dramatically on their first outing. The wood arms before that broke. The pipe arms before that broke. With the arresting system we got several seasons out of these aluminum ones.
Last edited by KCStudly on Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby RandyG » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:19 pm

Wow, to build something like that on top of building a tear takes alot of time managing, huh? Do you have another forum for pumpkin chunkers? The mechanics of it can keep my attention for a good while.

Bout to start getting cold up there, what are your plans during the winter months for the TPCE?
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:45 pm

How about a snowball tossing machine ... for the Winter... :o Bet that would get some attention ... :roll:

KC , scary engineering going on there... :frightened:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:39 pm

This site has a good forum and lots of people building smaller rigs (the big boys check in, too): The Hurl

This is our team site with several examples of smaller machines that would make good winter projects and/or snowball throwing rigs (look thru the "Engines of War" selections on the right hand side): Siege-Engine.com

Despite all of this talk about catapults, and the distraction from The Charcoal Briquette, I have started back in on TPCE tonight. After cleaning up all of my wiring mess from Mr. B, and fiddling with an 11/66 200A that wanted to burn from every place except the mantle, I got the upper rear cabinet floor panel fit into the ledgers.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:10 am

Back to work !!! :thumbsup: 8)
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Ned B » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:14 am

I just spent the better part of an hour on the team website... fascinating!
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Mary C » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:37 am

KC it is hard to get back to work without a deadline or something else wanting to be in the works. I am going down to begin work now but I wanted to let you know I really enjoyed looking at your picts and the pumpkin chunking from last year. I am not into all the mechanical but I do appreciate it and am aware of all the work. The piece you showed cracked I would spend endless hours trying to figure out how to remake or design so that wouldn't happen That is the part I enjoy . Y'all have done a great job!!!

Mary C. :)
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:20 am

Thank you Mary and everyone else for all of the supportive comments. :D

The ballista is a team effort and had been around for several years before I got involved, so credit for the hard part goes to the team. It takes a coordinated effort and lots of collective memory to get it down the road, set up, fired, repaired, broken down, and home again. In fact, it still needs to be brought back to Framingham and have all the gear stowed for the winter.

Right, back to work.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:21 pm

Yesterday I hauled the chunker support trailer and gear back up to Framingham. A 5500w gas powered Winco electric start generator followed me home. Not for camping, but for power outages at home. It was surplus team equipment, and I may have to give a few sheckels for it to help balance out the team spreadsheet, but it’s still under market value by a long shot.

Didn’t make it back to Mecca after that, and felt lazy today, so all I have to report is from the end of the week.

The days are short on light now and the old reliable turd helps take the nip out of the air.
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All my glues are out of the loft now and I will have to get used to hauling them around, or maybe build that lamp box that was recommended last year.

Here I have cut the upper rear cabinet floor to length so that it would slide into the ledgers.
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The table saw threw its drive belt the other day when Ben came over to run a big block of ash through it (apparently the pulley had slipped and the belt walked off damaging the belt's ribs). The belt is not a common size here, so has to be ordered from Steel City, the OEM.

I was able to make the cross cut on the end of the panel by plunging down with the sliding miter saw, then flipping the piece over, carefully lining up the blade to the kerf, and completing the cut.

Using a test piece from the same stock, you can see how the panel is wider front to back than it needs to be to fit the groove in the back of the face frame.
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With the saw out of commission, I set up my aluminum guide fence and used the router to rip the edge off. Here is the setup.
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The result was not quite enough removed as evident by the gap (dark area) still remaining.
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Just a little hand work with the Surform plane and sanding block to take it down a hair and allow a little room for the panel to float.
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Progress pics.
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I spent some time marking the location of the lower face frame on the underside of the upper cabinet floor panel and laying out some screw hole locations to screw down thru the panel into the frame (to keep it from rattling). I tried several combinations of predrilling on some scraps, and both the truss head screws and the No. 6 flatheads. The countersinking bit was too irregular for my taste. The best result came from drilling just a clearance hole for the shank of the screw and running the FH screw down flush, letting it make its own countersink by compressing the ply to conform. I tried it on one of my color test pieces, too, to make sure it wouldn’t flake the poly finish, and it seemed to be okay there, too.

Then I finished masking around the ledgers and blew it all back apart so I can scrub up between the lines for glue.
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Then I realized I had gotten ahead of myself. I had intended to dry fit the red light wire way chase and make the mounting block for it while the cabinets were all fit up. At least I was able to set the rear ledger and wire chase up on the bench to see that I needed to blend the floor of the groove down to the wire hole in the ledger. Just a little paring with the utility knife to put a little ramp in the end of the groove. (The dark spot in the first pic is where the drilled hole broke out into the panel groove in the ledger; the actual wire hole is below that in the curved part of the ledger as visible in the 3rd pic.)
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And that’s all I have. It seems like as soon as I started working inside of the cabin, everything has slowed down; lots of little details and constantly getting in and out. Even though the roof isn’t on and I put a step at the front so that it is a little easier on my knees, it is still back and forth, back and forth.

Just need to keep plugging away at it.
Last edited by KCStudly on Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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