The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

[KCStudly]

Yes, OP. I am really starting to feel like I have the hang of it. Not an expert, but getting it done in reasonable fashion.

Stay tuned, today's exploits are coming right up.

[KCStudly]

Last night I trimmed up and washed the cured street side door sill glass.
Under door area.


Flox corner.


Under floor wrap.


Then I cut the large pieces of glass cloth for the remainder of the street side wall. Because of the limited size of the table I had to get creative. I marked some reference marks on the plastic; rolled out the glass and squared it up to the table; made marks on both edges of the cloth; pulled more cloth off the roll draping it back over itself until the first marks came to the edge of the table; and then marked and cut the desired lengths. I should have marked the 3 inch reference line for the floor under wrap at the same time, but didn’t think of that until I had already rolled them up for the night.

This morning I scuffed the areas on the sill layup that will be overlapped by the glass for the rear portion of the wall, and gave the wall a good once over with the vacuum cleaner and foxtail broom.

Then I added the reference line to the first ply and started getting it taped up into position.


It would have been easier if I had a reference line to work to at the top and could have just let gravity hang the rest of the sheet down, but the top curved line would have been impossible to predict and cut accurately prior to installation. Instead, I marked the 3 inch under wrap and just went back and forth adjusting the tape along the top and brushing the glass down until it hung relatively true.


Here’s what the top looked like prior to trimming to the lap line.


From there I trimmed to the layout line for the first ply, brushing the cloth out better and adding more tape.


Rather than half overlapping the left clearance light recess on the hatch, I cut around leaving the glass to straddle the recess.


At the hinge cut I made sure that the first wall ply overlapped the existing layups, but left enough of a gap for the second ply to stagger.


It was looking much tauter now.


Looking up under the hatch bumper I made a slit so that the floor under wrap would end in the gap, then trimmed the hatch portion short so that it could be folded under. At first I thought I would just leave this hanging, wet to the edge of the radius and sand to blend after the cure; but you will see later that I ended up wetting it out, adding a little more armor to the corner of the already glassed hatch bumper.


I struggled for a while trying to decide how to do such a big layup while maintaining a wet edge, and still wrap the flap under the floor in one step. If I worked down the wall in sections, by the time I got to the end of the wall and started folding the under wrap up the fast hardener would likely have started to get leathery at the beginning areas. If I worked down the wall in sections and folded the flap up as I went, I expected to have problems getting the brush up under the flap to “paint” the next section. This all got further complicated by the fact that when it came time to drape the second ply I would be fighting with the wires poking out. I envisioned a big gooey wad getting tangled and perhaps falling on the floor.

I also considered using the slow hardener to buy more wet time, but really liked having used the fast stuff because it goes quicker and the layup gets more stable quicker; meaning you are less likely to drag things out of position as you go, and corners are less likely to spring back up, etc. The weather was on my side for the fast hardener, as the temp’s were holding right around 60 deg F.

The solution seemed to be fitting the second ply dry, as well, and wetting them both out as one. That way I could get everything situated before it got sticky. This also meant that I could tape both under wrap plies up in advance, and not have to worry so much about keeping that wet edge moving.

You can see the first ply under wrapping the floor here.


The snips for the wires to pull thru end up a little jagged. You can see that here at the rear side clearance light recess and porch light, respectively…



… and here again at the cured front clearance light.


I thought I might put an extra little swatch of cloth over these areas and even cut a couple of small pieces, but then decided to just touch them up with filler later during the body working phase.

While I was still deciding about the second ply, I worked on setup and prep for the wet out. It occurred to me that Karl had bought a small paper cutter at one of the tractor swap meets and it just might be a more efficient and better way to chop down the bristles on the chip brushes. It worked pretty well despite being dull and requiring repeated cuts to get thru all of the bristles. The results were much straighter and more even than what I had been doing with the scissors. I put the empty paper towel box underneath the edge of the bench to catch most of the cut bristles. I prepped six brushes and used them all. Later I found that I still had a few of those little blister pops, so decided that they were probably from having mixed air into the epoxy, and not from cleaning brushes midstream using the acetone. Next time I will go back to using fewer brushes and cleaning them on the fly.


Reassured by previous advice that I should be able to wet out the two plies all dry on dry, I decided to go that way and put the second ply on dry. This was a little more difficult doing it by myself than the first ply because it wanted to slip right off; whereas the first ply had some friction with the foam and held up better while getting the tape started. Anyway, I got it up there; got it aligned along the bottom; and got it cut and taped.


You can see here how the second ply overlaps the jamb and prior layups by about 1-1/2 inches.


Second ply bottom wrap all taped up along with extra tape on all of the wires. These are the porch foot light wires hanging down.


You can see how the plies are staggered around the hinge cutout.


Okay, that took from about 11:30am up to about 3:30pm. I guess I’m feeling ambitious and wanting to keep things moving. Time to step out back for a little weed abatement before starting to mix up the epoxy. This may sound like TMI, but you need to keep things moving during a layup and the last thing you want to think about is dancing up and down on one leg while trying to hold it thru ‘til the end.

Once I got a good portion of the main panel wet out it was sticky enough that I could peel off the tape around the edges in stages. On previous layups I had trouble getting a hold of the tape edges with gloved fingers. So for each piece of tape I folded one corner under on itself and placed that end of the tape on the glass side of the joint. That way it was easier to get a hold of and pull in the direction that did not tend to lift the edge of the glass.

On the floor under wrap, I waffled back and forth between trying to wet it thru, and peeling it down to brush wet onto the floor to make it go quicker with less slopping. Neither technique was ideal, but it all got done w/o any catastrophe.

I had calculated that it would take about 32oz of resin, plus hardener, to wet out the cut cloth, not including allowance for saturating the foam and wood, or deducting for the areas of glass that were trimmed off at the profile line. In the end I had mixed 8 batches at 5 pumps and two batches at 4 pumps for a total of 34oz of resin. Some got lost to the cups and brushes and some hit the cardboard drop cloths, so I figure I got pretty close on the ratio. There were a few slightly wet areas, but not too bad.





By the time that was all done, and I had gone around trimming loose strands and chasing any drips, the door jamb had set up to the “leathery” stage. It was tough enough to cut with the utility knife w/o messing up the adhesion along the flox edge, but so much easier to cut clean in one pass than it would be to do later after the full cure. Wish it was this easy every time.



Unfortunately the hatch gap had not reached that stage yet, and at 7:30pm, after 8 hrs I was ready to go home.

After getting this all done, having learned what I learned today on this, my largest layup, I figure I probably could have done the whole wall as one big layup. It would have meant getting both plies of glass all taped and trimmed into position in one prep session, and then doing the wet out in a marathon session. The cloth in the door openings would most likely have gone to waste, but if I was concerned about ultimate strength, that is how I would do it now that I have the experience.

Still, I am very happy with the progress today, having proven my chosen technique and reaching another mini milestone.

[GPW]

[KCStudly]

Thanks GPW. Your constant support is truly appreciated.

[KCStudly]

Today was light duty compared to yesterday, but I still managed to keep busy for a few hours. First an overall view of the street side with cured glass.


Went around and trimmed the gnarly bits away from all of the wire penetrations using the utility knife and/or steak knife. Then a little scrub with sandpaper around the inside edge.
Rear side clearance light.


Rear hatch clearance light. I didn’t bother getting too fussy with this as it will be glassed over again when the hatch gets done; but I didn’t want to have to cut thru more than two layers all at once. It is easier to cut just one or two layers and I didn’t want to risk cutting the wires. (I guess I could have left it and used the Dremel later.)


Porch light. I may regret not cutting a recess for the extra wire here.


Lower rear side light.


Here’s the front seam after block sanding it down.



The hinge area block sanded. I'll wait and cut the hatch free again after it is fully glassed.


Here’s a long shot from the rear.


And a perspective shot of the weave.


Got the rough edges around the perimeter all sanded down, washed amine and set her back down.

Time to move on to the other side. Feeling pretty good.

[TheOtherSean]

Nice work. Looks like you're getting closer and closer to not seeing foam.

[KCStudly]

Thanks! Just have to keep picking away at it, one bite at a time.

[Ned B]

Looking great KC! You'll be working on finishing touches in weeks at this rate!

[KCStudly]

Thanks Ned!

The weather is going cold again for a day or so with rain. They say it is not good to layup in the rain or high humidity. I'll try to at least get the front section of the curb side wall set up, and if I can't get it wet out tonight, I'll plan on doing it on Wednesday when it is supposed to be clear and warm back up. Otherwise I will pick away at smaller jobs.

Train kept a rollin'.

[GPW]

Just somebody else’ two cents ... Heard on a “home show” that it was bad to let the paint go under the recommended temperature during the early stages of the drying and CURING process too .... It was mentioned that the temp might fall too far below at night , and that when that happens it brings certain chemicals to the surface , not allowing the paint to cure properly , which could affect it’s longevity and finish ... We’ve noticed certain Latex paints seem to last better than others ... and it may be the application causing it .... Guess the best place to paint is always someplace with a fully controlled temperature and dry ... and leave it there for a week ...

[KCStudly]

Yeah, I've only had one, maybe two small batches act weird early in my testing. At the moment I'm thinking that those were ratio related due to trying to weigh really small batches down at the lowest resolution of the digital scale that I am using. It was those little gaps between the hatch inner skin and the hinge header. I'd have to look back and see if there was a temperature concern at that time; maybe, I don't recall. Those just got gummy and didn't cure right so I scraped them off and went again.

Everything else has set up as expected. Sometimes when you first touch it it feels like maybe it hasn't cured, but then you realize that it is just the waxy texture of the amine blush. Also, the epoxy is still somewhat flexible after the first 20 hrs or so, about 70/ct cured, but it continues to stiffen for a while after that. I believe this is normal.

I have zero concerns about the integrity of the glass work I have done so far, but you do have to keep an eye on the weather and know how that will affect the atmospheric conditions in your shop. For example, if it is warmer for a few days, then warm enough to do layup work and get done before it starts to cool off in the evening, then I know that the loft temperatures won't dip so low even if marginal overnight temps are called for. If on the other hand, it has been cool for several evenings and it barely warms up during the day, with more cold temps called for overnight, and Karl has been out on the road doing installs instead of running the wood stove in the shop downstairs, then it probably isn't a good time to try a layup.

One of the best things I did at the beginning of the build is get one of those small battery op recording thermometer/hygrometers. It records the high and low for both temp and humidity, and when the build is done it will find a permanent home in the camper.

[KCStudly]

Tonight after running some errands and a late start, Karl gave me a hand taping the curb side glass into position in front of the door. They're all trimmed and ready to go come Wednesday.

Funny thing was I knew I had a late start and didn’t have as much time, but when I looked at the clock (the watch I have clipped to the tool shelf) it wasn’t as late as I thought it was… until I realized I hadn’t set the time forward on that clock for DST.

Still got an hour or so in but didn’t get home until nearly 8pm.

[KCStudly]

It’s time to get caught up. Wednesday after getting more chip brushes… stepped up to the 15 pack this time… I wetted out the curb side glass in front of the door. Here I had started cutting the excess out of the door jamb, but it hadn’t gotten leathery enough, so I stopped and left it for post cure.



This particular layup wasn’t my best work. Because I am limited in how much I can keel the cabin over and am not rolling the epoxy on, there tends to be some slobbering as I try to get the wet epoxy from the cup onto the surface. Starting at the top and working down, sometimes those big drools run down on the surface of the glass w/o really soaking in at first. Then as I work down the surface gradually forcing the epoxy in, I think some of those drooled on areas sort of had a head start gelling, making it harder to wet thru. The weird thing is I could dab and use the disc roller and it would look fully wet, I’d step back over to the bench for a second or two, then come back and there they were again. It kept looking like there were small air pockets in between the plies. Some of these may have been slightly indented spots in the foam where the first ply laid down but tension in the second ply made it lift away from the first; not sure, but I saw some of that on the tongue box, too. Mind you only a very small percentage of the whole area is affected, so I’m not concerned about the structural integrity at all, but I don’t want to have problems with blisters in the paint, either.

After doing the face of the wall all the way down to the bottom edge of the floor I moved back up to the top, pulled the tape that had been holding the plies in place, and wet the roof wrap section out. By this time it was dark outside and after a long day I was not at my best, so after the cure I wasn’t surprised to find some heavily wet areas and drips around the first 6 inches or so down from the profile.

It really isn’t as bad as it may sound… I do tend to nitpick… Hi, my name is Kevin and I am a nitpicker. Anyway, the next day I block sanded some, but will come back later and see what it might want during the body working stage. If I have to drill and inject a few spots, or sand thru and refill, I’ll do that.

Here’s the under wrap at the curb side front corner. Still has a little fringe there on the leading edge that will get trimmed and sanded off after it cures.


Close up of the radius edge.


Thursday I came back and trimmed the extras, went thru the “deburring” and amine washing cycles, did the sanding that I mentioned, and scuffed the areas adjacent to the door header and sill layups.


Where the masking tape on the upper front clearance light wires leaned against the extra wet, it sort of enveloped a small piece of the blue tape which tore away when I moved the wires to trim out the wire recess. I had to scrape, sand, and dig a little to get that out.


At the lower front marker light wire, the loop of wire transitioning from the lower recess up to the upper was bulging out of the recess and pushed the cloth away from the surface in a couple of spots. I trimmed the raised cloth off and sanded it back to where everything was soundly attached; I’ll have to come back and lay a couple of small swatches to level this area.

The under wrap at the front corner cleaned up very nicely and I was happy with that.


The weather is going back toward cold overnights for the weekend… they’re even using the ‘S’ word (snow), so I wanted to at least get the curb side door header and sill laid up tonight (Friday).

For these smaller parts I went back to the dry on wet technique, painting the epoxy on to the traced out area; draping the dry cloth into position; palm and squeegee it down; wet out; repeat. This was much more controlled resulting in much leaner lay ups, and with it still being light out as I finished, I could see to do QC much better. Here they are still wet after rough trimming the excess with scissors.





These went very well, being well placed, not overly wet, no apparent defects and minimal fringe (if you don’t count that long string hanging down under the floor which will clean up easily after cure).

Tomorrow I will clean these up and start getting ready for the larger rear area of the wall. Not sure if the weather will let me get that laid up this weekend, but we'll see how the temp’s in the loft carry over tonight and watch the forecast closely.

Hey, progress is progress.

[GPW]

Moving right along !!! Fiberglass work is slow ...bit tedious ...

[dales133]

Looking awsum bud.
Id have to say im glad its not mt doing all that biberglass,i dont have that many good memories of glassing my boats.
Looks sweet though