Foamie aerodynamics.

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

Moderator: eaglesdare

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby Wobbly Wheels » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:36 am

Angib, that makes a lot of sense. Look at the fairings on tractor trailers to smoth the airflow over the gap. If it didn't have a very real effect on the drag (showing up as fuel economy), you wouldn't ser them on every long-haul rig. If I wind up towing mine as much as I'd like to, I'll definitely be putting a high top canopy on the truck for the same reason.
User avatar
Wobbly Wheels
Donating Member
 
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:51 am

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby loaderman » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:43 pm

Been reading on Hypermiling.
http://ecomodder.com/
Lots has to do with driving but also vehicle shape.
loaderman
The 300 Club
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:03 am

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby angib » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:26 am

loaderman wrote:Been reading on Hypermiling.
http://ecomodder.com/
Lots has to do with driving but also vehicle shape.

I find there is so much misunderstanding and plain wrong-ness there that it is too annoying to visit, even for the really interesting stuff that pops up occasionally.

For example, lots of folks there have ScanGuages and think that keeping the instantaneous mpg figure as high as possible all the time is the way to economy - whereas efficient driving is pretty much the opposite, with short bursts of efficient acceleration at low instantaneous mpg figures.

Similarly very few members seem to understand the difference between an aerodynamic shape and aerodynamic styling. Almost everything about reducing aerodynamic drag depends on getting all the details right and copying one 'trick' doesn't do it, particularly if that 'trick' was only styling anyway.
User avatar
angib
5000 Club
5000 Club
 
Posts: 5783
Images: 231
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:04 pm
Location: (Olde) England
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby GPW » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:04 am

Angib , forgive me if I seem to disagree (slightly) ... For our little simple trailers , just cleaning up the shape would add a modicum of efficiency , without having to resort to advanced aerodynamics ... Being a towed vehicle , we’re forced to compromise the design to “better” the efficiency , but towing at reasonable speeds would probably do the same ... :roll:
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14912
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby mezmo » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:53 am

I found this the other day wandering around the internet. It is
a great idea to 'emulate', It's a mostly flat panel design with an aero
frontal shape intended to meld the tow vehicle's airflow onto the trailer,
The back opens wide and the roof lifts if needed. It is as narrow as a VW Polo =
a Euro model that is smaller than the VW Golf. It has a modular two box
kitchenette and a fold-up bed. Various layout setups are possible.

It's the "Cross-Over Trailer" concept by Ross Design, the in-house design function of
the Vohringer Group, a German caravan [wohnwagen] interior component supplier/
manufacturer. It's intended to meld the tow vehicle's air movement into the trailer's
for an aero benefit. It is also light weight and narrow and has a large rear opening:

http://www.voehringer-gmbh.net/rossdesi ... ossdesign/
http://www.v-group.com/uploads/pdfs/CRo ... %20eng.pdf

It could be a TTT or a TTH [TintToyHauler] Foamie or otherwise.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo
If you have a house - you have a hobby.
User avatar
mezmo
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1817
Images: 194
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:11 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby loaderman » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:25 pm

Image

Early rear tapering for aerodynamics.

Article also states teardrops are good.
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24077451.cfm
loaderman
The 300 Club
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:03 am
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby loaderman » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:33 pm

That shape got me thinking about things in nature that use aerodynamics.
Fish - rounded front then taper to back
Birds - basically same idea.

Aeroplanes are rounded front and tapered to the back.

Now none of these are towed, so not sure how that effects it.
loaderman
The 300 Club
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:03 am
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby ghcoe » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:10 am

loaderman wrote:That shape got me thinking about things in nature that use aerodynamics.
Fish - rounded front then taper to back
Birds - basically same idea.

Aeroplanes are rounded front and tapered to the back.

Now none of these are towed, so not sure how that effects it.



Geese/ducks fly in a V formation to cut down on drag. :)
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
User avatar
ghcoe
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:20 pm
Location: SW Idaho
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby GPW » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:06 am

Easiest way to cut down on Drag is to Slow Down !!! Drag increases exponentially with Speed ... :o
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14912
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby loaderman » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:18 am

HMMMM - So if one doesn't move at all you get great gas mileage. :lol:

which actually is not true if your vehicle is running. An idling stationary vehicle gets 0 mpg.

But I do get your point and it is very true you will get better mileage doing 50 then 65.
loaderman
The 300 Club
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:03 am
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby linuxmanxxx » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:54 am

Well yes and no depending on what your vehicle gear ratios are set so that what rpm is the maximum efficiency but then you throw in a towed item and if it's geared too high it will lug the engine at full speed and cause higher consumption vs if it's geared too low you wouldn't see as much dropoff cause the engine wouldn't work as hard pulling the camper.

As said before the most important thing is keeping it within your vehicle's wind tunnel effect for the best efficiency or use a diesel which won't drop mileage until it is massively loaded during a pull.
User avatar
linuxmanxxx
500 Club
 
Posts: 798
Images: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:50 am
Location: Abilene TX
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby mezmo » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:02 pm

In case any one is interested:

That Tow Vehicle looks to be a Tatra 87, a Czech car. Quite
a unique vehicle, @ 3000lbs, with an air-cooled V8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_87

The trailer is a Bowlus - the original aircraft style constructed TT, the
actual forerunner of the Airstream. They were very expensive for the times
and went bankrupt. Wally Byam, the founder of Airstream, had
worked for/with them and bought the assets at the bankruptcy sale
and also hired some of the workers... . The trailer is probably a Road
Chief model @ 6ft x 18ft and @ 1100lbs. They used small steel tubing
for the body framing.
http://www.openthinkinc.com/bowlus/index.html

From what I've read on the topic, and for our purposes - as amateur builders -
matching the frontal size of the trailer to the max cross-section of the tow
vehicle and doing somewhat of a kamm-back effect on the rear of the trailer
would seem to be the most beneficial, or the most result for the effort.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo
If you have a house - you have a hobby.
User avatar
mezmo
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1817
Images: 194
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:11 am
Location: Columbia, SC
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby atahoekid » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:02 pm

Just a practical note and I really haven't had time to think much about it to evaluate the meaning behind the numbers. I drive a F250 Ford pickup with a diesel engine. The best mileage I've ever gotten is 19.7 mpg on a road trip to SD. No real weight, just myself, my wife, son and our baggage. The worst I've ever gotten is 13.2 while towing a Ford Escape on a trailer back from SD. Normal day to day driving gets me 15.2. My first road trip (1500 miles)with the Road Foamie got me 15.2 mpg.

The Road Foamie fits inside the trucks' envelope pretty well except for maybe 6" on each side sticking out. I did not baby the truck but did try to stay within the posted speed limit. The nose is pretty well sloped but the back is square cut. I'm wondering if the basic shape didn't help my mileage. I was hoping for better.
Mel

"Believe in your abilities... Remember amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic"

"Indecision may or may not be my problem" Jimmy Buffet

Image

The Road Foamie Build Thread: viewtopic.php?t=45698
User avatar
atahoekid
Platinum Donating Member
 
Posts: 1773
Images: 158
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:49 am
Location: Incline Village, NV
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby Wobbly Wheels » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:42 pm

I don't really think it's going to 'help' your mileage: you still have to punch a big square hole in the air to get truck through.
To see that it didn't hurt your mileage much is a good thing.
Imagine if your were pulling a commercially-built travel trailer (a big square box)...
User avatar
Wobbly Wheels
Donating Member
 
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:51 am
Top

Re: Foamie aerodynamics.

Postby GPW » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:49 am

Having towed a big commercial trailer , they are like towing a Parachute , and cut my mileage more than half ... :frightened: From 22MPG to 8MPG ... Big Oil must Love that ... :twisted:
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14912
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Foamies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests