Thrifty Alternatives ..Building Foam Campers

[atahoekid]

I have not gone on any camping trips this summer, but we do have one planned in mid to late October. I like fall camping the best anyway, but this is a little later than I normally would go. The wife and I are headed out for 11 days to the NorCal and southern Oregon coasts and then returning through central Oregon back into NorCal and then back home to Northern Nevada. So the pressure is on to finish the build. If I don't I'm in big trouble with "She who must be obeyed" I guess I can't say she hasn't lifted a finger to help since this past weekend, she did hold one piece in place while I had to get it clamped down. But that has literally been all she has done to assist. Fun project, I like how it's coming out, but I want to be done... Although as soon as I'm done, I've got some ideas in mind for a "Standie" with a Porta Potty so we can camp anywhere and not worry about having to find only campgrounds with a flush toilet.

[Jack B.]

Guess I'm going to ask a question that's been answered around here somewhere but now I can't find specifics. So much info and so little personal organization on my part.

Using paint to anchor the fabric to the foam instead of glue? Some are doing it right, or did I remember wrong what I read? What's the best paint as far as gripping the foam goes? And does it work for the parts tucked under the floor for bonding? Of course underneath I would probably be using stringers that I screw and glue through the cloth.

Jack

[eaglesdare]

since i did not use paint, i can't answer that. however, i did staple my canvas underneath.

[GPW]

I believe it was Latex Exterior enamel that provided the best adhesion .... That’s what I plan on using on the new build ...

[bonnie]

That would be from Mike's build, right?

[GPW]

Yes , Big Mike tested everything !!!

[wagondude]

The test thread is stickied up top. viewtopic.php?f=55&t=44801

[KCStudly]

...does it work for the parts tucked under the floor for bonding? Of course underneath I would probably be using stringers that I screw and glue through the cloth.

It sounds like you are planning to wrap the canvas around the wall and under the upper floor skin, and then build the floor framework under that? That would be a new approach. Do you plan on having an insulated floor with top and bottom skins, or just a top skin and open frame work underneath? If screwing threw the canvas to apply stringers I would bed the stringer in something wet and sticky (sealant, black goop, wet paint, anything to form a seal), then come back and pull the screws one at a time to add more sealant/glue/etc. into the screw hole. Don't want any chance of water getting up into the floor.

What I think has been done mostly, and what I plan to do on TPCE is to: attach the walls to the completed floor; then wrap with paint and canvas stapling canvas down under the whole floor (you could even go crazy and canvas the bottom of the floor first for extra strength and protection); then coat the bottom with your preferred sealer (more paint and/or the goop); then bolt the box to the trailer frame (perhaps using a bed of sealant on the frame members to fill voids and provide anti-skid/anti-squeak). Where the bolts go up through, I intend to seal liberally with "the mixture" or even epoxy prior to canvas and/or goop.

On another thread there was a discussion about whether one should seal all of the members and surfaces on the inside of the floor structure before gluing it together. I didn't do that based on the premise that I was using wood glue to stick wood to wood and adhesive to stick foam to wood, and I didn't want anything to interfere with those bonds; the paint, canvas, paint and sealer "should" prevent water from getting in. Extra reinforcement at corners and edges. OOMV (other opinions may vary).

My most vulnerable points will be penetrations such as the floor mounting holes, the windows and door latches, the roof vent, and of course the edges of the doors and hatch. I am struggling with the sequence for the walls in my mind. I would like to have the canvas on and wrapped around the door jambs and door frame before putting the interior wall skins on because then the inner wood skin would make a nice crisp edge holding the edges of the canvas firmly. I want to skin the inside all in one go with the wall and door shimmed together so that the door stays flat and true to the opening.

On the other hand, applying the inner wall skin (5 mm marine ply) first would add stability; whereas the canvas could pull the wall out of flat due to shrinkage. Has anyone had their wall curl up when applying canvas ‘in the flat’ before attached to the box? I am still on the fence as to whether to pre-shrink canvas or to let it shrink at install for the tension/sock effect (both seem to have been effective for others and not pre-shrinking eliminates a step).

What I will probably do is "jamb out" the door edge and door frame first with strips of canvas (same for the roof vent and other areas), build the box, then come back and apply the bulk of the canvas. I don't think I will have too much trouble flipping the box around to work in the flat if needed.

Good luck, build on, and remember... lots of pic's. We need da pics.

[eaglesdare]

...does it work for the parts tucked under the floor for bonding? Of course underneath I would probably be using stringers that I screw and glue through the cloth.

It sounds like you are planning to wrap the canvas around the wall and under the upper floor skin, and then build the floor framework under that? That would be a new approach. Do you plan on having an insulated floor with top and bottom skins, or just a top skin and open frame work underneath? If screwing threw the canvas to apply stringers I would bed the stringer in something wet and sticky (sealant, black goop, wet paint, anything to form a seal), then come back and pull the screws one at a time to add more sealant/glue/etc. into the screw hole. Don't want any chance of water getting up into the floor.

What I think has been done mostly, and what I plan to do on TPCE is to: attach the walls to the completed floor; then wrap with paint and canvas stapling canvas down under the whole floor (you could even go crazy and canvas the bottom of the floor first for extra strength and protection); then coat the bottom with your preferred sealer (more paint and/or the goop); then bolt the box to the trailer frame (perhaps using a bed of sealant on the frame members to fill voids and provide anti-skid/anti-squeak). Where the bolts go up through, I intend to seal liberally with "the mixture" or even epoxy prior to canvas and/or goop.

On another thread there was a discussion about whether one should seal all of the members and surfaces on the inside of the floor structure before gluing it together. I didn't do that based on the premise that I was using wood glue to stick wood to wood and adhesive to stick foam to wood, and I didn't want anything to interfere with those bonds; the paint, canvas, paint and sealer "should" prevent water from getting in. Extra reinforcement at corners and edges. OOMV (other opinions may vary).

My most vulnerable points will be penetrations such as the floor mounting holes, the windows and door latches, the roof vent, and of course the edges of the doors and hatch. I am struggling with the sequence for the walls in my mind. I would like to have the canvas on and wrapped around the door jambs and door frame before putting the interior wall skins on because then the inner wood skin would make a nice crisp edge holding the edges of the canvas firmly. I want to skin the inside all in one go with the wall and door shimmed together so that the door stays flat and true to the opening.

On the other hand, applying the inner wall skin (5 mm marine ply) first would add stability; whereas the canvas could pull the wall out of flat due to shrinkage. Has anyone had their wall curl up when applying canvas ‘in the flat’ before attached to the box? I am still on the fence as to whether to pre-shrink canvas or to let it shrink at install for the tension/sock effect (both seem to have been effective for others and not pre-shrinking eliminates a step).

What I will probably do is "jamb out" the door edge and door frame first with strips of canvas (same for the roof vent and other areas), build the box, then come back and apply the bulk of the canvas. I don't think I will have too much trouble flipping the box around to work in the flat if needed.

Good luck, build on, and remember... lots of pic's. We need da pics.

one of my doors has warped(curled) and will not completely close anymore. one door is fine, the other is not. remember though, my doors were never made to be my doors. i just never went back to fix them. they have no frame to them at all.

and funny that you mention wrapping the floor with canvas and then applying goop or paint. i actually am doing my floors like that, wrapping and painting. i am using what i have on hand. lots of left overs here. the only thing i will have to get is more glue. but i figured if this method was good enough for the shell, then it should be good enough for the floor also.

[Jack B.]

I didn't make it plain what I was thinking of doing. Perhaps it was the word stringers that threw my meaning off. I do in fact intend to do the fabric over the foam and then anchor under the floor. Don't think the strength would be near enough doing the attaching to the top of the floor. Any floor I do would probably be 3/8" - 1/2" treated, painted and maybe fabric wrapped plywood. Other things I've done I've found that 3/8" plywood once it's bolted to the trailer frame doesn't have a flex problem. Granted I've only worked with the 40"X48" bed size bolt together little red trailer that I got to haul my motorcycle and/or to pull with my motorcycle, but I've not had flexing problems with 3/8" material even though I stretched its use beyond the ends of the trailer support to a 6' 6" floor length for a clam shell single sleeper I built to haul behind the bike with 1/4" luan ply framed with 3/4" pine. The 1/4" stuff was only primed, painted and then had three coats of water based poly as a finish coat and hasn't shown any problems (other than a little mildew on the inside) after spending a MN winter on a pair of sawhorses under a light weight tarp in the back yard.

My "stringers" are just going to be 1"X2" screwed/glued to the underneath perimeter and across wherever there are trailer cross beams. Adds stiffness and a little extra beef to bolt through for anchoring things down.

As of now I'm still trying to get an idea for a design for a tow behind the bike camper for taking off on solo trips. I'm of a mind to do a kamm back version of a TD which would basically be for hauling gear, then stow the gear under the trailer for sleeping.

But then again . . . There's the idea of a stretch TD that would go from around 4' out to 7'. I've come up with a (I think) rather ingenious design that utilizes a telescoping frame that you pin in the short position for towing and then pin in the stretch position for sleeping. In short mode the floor would be two layers of thin ply that would be a single layer once extended. A hinged three sided contraption or a snap on canvas or tarp material would be used to cover the gap between front half and back half when the trailer is extended. I'm leaning towards a hinged hard side only because it would be quicker to set and easier to make water proof. With a home built frame that telescopes, 1/4" - 3/8" floor pieces, foam sides and possibly using waterproofed 1/8" fiberboard (I think that's what I mean) roof material I'm thinking I would be looking at quite a bit under 200# naked. My bolt together trailer with axle, springs and 8" wheels and tires weighs in at just under 100# and what I would be building would weigh in less than that. I was thinking of maybe using motorcycle wheels and shocks (or small coil springs if doable) for the under carriage, although I'm not sure that a "hardtail" design wouldn't work okay for this particular use.

This boy do go on don't he? But then I don't have dogs, cats, grand kids, hurricanes or tall bridges to distract me, so I have to fill the spaces with the stuff that rattles around "upstairs". You have no idea of the many things I've built in my head over the many decades of cross country driving.

Jack

[atahoekid]

I used an interior latex enamel (it was free) on my upper trim pieces on the Road Foamie and it held fine. I coated the foam with the full strength paint, laid on the canvas and then applied a thinned out mix (2:1 paint to water)to saturate and topcoat once it was assembled. I used staples to hold the canvas down in the tricky spots and TBII for the real tricky spots. Worked fine.

[GPW]

Pet Pics ...
Every morning I come out here and do my “net” thing, dark and quiet , except for some occasional splashing sounds ..
Turns out I’ve had a pet Toad living in the Studio for months ... I wondered how he stayed alive , and this morning found out .... He has a regular soak in the dog bowl ... Might have to give him a name ... I have noticed a lack of bugs in here lately ...
Now , back to Foamies

[eaglesdare]

simba is afraid of frogs.

[GPW]

Frogs ??? Na Unh ???

[eaglesdare]

i have mentioned somewhere, simba is a big coward! i can't even imagine him herding sheep. i think he would be petrified of them.


not sure my floor is going in today. hubby did a stupid thing last night. he tried to remove something that was a caught up in the mower blades, and the blades spun and cut his thumb pretty good. i almost had to take him in for stiches, but the bleeding did eventually stop. now i don't think i have mentioned this, but hubby is a big baby. so this cut, will hinder anything and everything he does.