The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby parnold » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:23 pm

all this talk about biscuits is making me hungry. 8)

I think all of us may be guilty of doing things a particular way that makes us comfortable, but from different points of view, may not be the "best" way.

Keep up the good work KC!
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby linuxmanxxx » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:13 pm

OK I don't mince words and sometimes that is taken as rude or being a jerk. KC is frustrated over time spent and accomplishments vs his original deadline and I'm simply making suggestions how he can make slight method adjustments to help speed up his results and maintain his quality plus it will help when they have to build Carl one later lol.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:15 pm

linuxmanxxx wrote:OK I don't mince words and sometimes that is taken as rude or being a jerk. KC is frustrated over time spent and accomplishments vs his original deadline and I'm simply making suggestions how he can make slight method adjustments to help speed up his results and maintain his quality plus it will help when they have to build Carl one later lol.


"To every time there is a season".

I can appreciate you both for your support. Thank you Paul for having an open mind and supporting my method, right, wrong or just entertaining because of the tribulations that I force upon myself. Thank you for your support.

And thank you Linux for your interest in my build and for your consideration in trying to help me meet my goals. I hope that my experiences are able to help you to also meet your goals.

That being said, a couple of things come to mind. First, gluing and pinning with shot brad nails is probably wholly adequate, especially considering that the completed assembly will be reinforced by the backing of the foam and the covering (inside panel and outside canvas skin).

Second, I am probably using too much glue. Although the label on the glue bottle says to be generous, what manufacturer wouldn't say to use a bunch of their product? I'm not too sure that I would be happy slobbering glue all around while I moved on to the next stage. In favor of my method, the glue is mostly dried when I move on to the next stage. Against my method, I tend to want to scrape and sand at each stage, which I'm sure is inefficient production wise. I see it as a necessary evil, so that the parts lay flat on the bench for the next stage.

On glue usage, I do purposely apply more to the end grain, sometimes applying and then reapplying before clamping, because I am sure that it soaks up more and I don't want to starve the joint.

And shouldn't there be some sort of tnttt special recognition award for bumping into your second gallon of glue? I topped off my small glue bottle and slot glue bottle and there's just a small bit left in the first gallon, so I picked up another gallon of TB2. Must be some sort of right of passage, no?

Third, my schedule burden has been lifted, so real or imagined, I would like to continue building in the purposeful and, perhaps over sturdy method that I have been using. In my estimation the biscuits are no heavier, and probably stronger than the brads or screws. Maybe? (Feel free to discuss.)

Fourth and fifth, my goal has never been to build ultra lightly, nor hurriedly. Sure, I would like to keep the weight down where reasonable, but I want no compromise in strength. The schedule crunch was a self induced goal. With that relief, I am content to spend the extra time to meet my own level of satisfaction on the creative process. If that adds value to the end product, either real or perceived, so be it. If it adds unrecoverable labor, I will be content in my effort to occupy my brain and body in honoring my father. If it adds undo complexity due to my over active imagination, I will be the first to admit where I have over complicated things when I find that I am working too hard (as I have done so in the past).

Again, thank you for participating in my build. It's all good and I appreciate the support that everyone here provides. :thumbsup:
Last edited by KCStudly on Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby linuxmanxxx » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:52 pm

I was suggesting to keep the biscuits and use brads to hold till the glue sets. You still have the biscuit alignment and strength and bypass clamping and waiting to dry to do other things. Good thing about tb is if you shot brads and it oozes damp cloth wipes excess right off same effect as dry removal but quicker and less effort. Just trying to help make your life easier not change your build integrity.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:17 pm

Hmm, I think I will try the brad and biscuit method on my under counter dividers.

I have at times wiped the excess glue with a damp rag prior to the joint setting up, but it always seemed to result in small gaps at the joints (even on a tight dry joint), as if when not wiped the extra glue was being absorbed back into the joint as it dried. The label instructions say to wipe excess glue with a damp rag after the jount has set.

Still, I think that these are useful conversations for us and others who may be observing. I will try the biscuit and pin method and only wipe the gross excess; see what I think.

Thanks.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wolfgang92025 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:27 pm

KC,

Until you build your first camper, it is hard to estimate the amount of time required.
I choose to keep track, and I have over 700 hours in mine and I missed my self imposed deadline.
Good things take time. It will show in the end, when you have a first class trailer rolling down the road heading west. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Keep at it and keep posting.
Wolfgang

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby bonnie » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:28 pm

Really have learned a lot from the give and take on your build. Thanks to all.
Remember, the turtle won. :)
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:41 pm

Bonnie, thanks for staying tuned in. Season 2 is just about to begin! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wolfgang, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have tried to indicate how much time I am putting in as i go along, but have not been keeping strict track. If we look at my typical week we will find that I am putting in between 2 and 3 hrs of hard fab time 4 days a week, and about 15 to 20 hrs on the weekends. That's kind of a max number with a few exceptions, but there is some other time spent on material sourcing and design details.

So let's just figure an average of 30 hrs/week. I started building in earnest on Saturday, Feb. 18th. That makes this the middle of the 23rd week. Round down and that's about 660 hours. Hmm, I'm nowhere near your level of completion. That speaks volumes about your top notch build. I could have copied your build step for step and not have achieved the same result. You do great work!

The message I would like all potential builders to take away from this is, if you are in a hurry or just want to keep things simple, build a plywood box and mount it to a trailer that comes in a cardboard box! You will achieve a result and you, too, will be proud of your work.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I take a certain sense of pride in saying that, if you want to push your personal creative envelope, then set a goal that may be slightly above your comfort level (skill and budget) and rely on the experience of the fine folks here on this forum (and your friends and family) to fulfill that goal. Bonnie gets it.

There is a place for everyone, thrifty and simple, high end dream machines, and, well, hopefully TPCE somewhere in the middle.

Speaking of budget, I entered the latest receipts into the spread sheet and depending upon how you slice the hard build costs versus support material and tooling, I'm showing about $4700 in the build directly and another $520 indirect (remember that Rover Mike's saw time was labor traded, not out of pocket). Once I use up the supply of sandpaper and biscuits (etc.), a bunch of the indirect costs will move to the direct pile (YMMV). Add latch hardware, electrical, canvas, paint, seals, finishing materials, inspection and registration, and we are definitely over budget. No regrets, though!

I share this info as a reality check for those of you who are just considering starting out on your own build. Sure it can be done for less, but do be realistic in your estimations... then add at least 20%... so far. :shock: :lol: :thinking: :frightened: :D (mixed emotions)

In for a penny, in for a pound. I will be building on. Thanks for watching.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby parnold » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:16 am

KCStudly wrote:In for a penny, in for a pound. I will be building on. Thanks for watching.


I like your attitude KC, and continue to enjoy following along!
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Oldragbaggers » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:55 am

Your build thread is great, the conversation here is always so lively and informative. I too enjoy following along.
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Sail...camp....bike...repeat
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:56 pm

Becky and Paul, thank you both for the nice words of encouragement. I am following both of your builds, and am enjoying your stories and craftspersonship, too. This forum rocks, "don't it"!?!

To everyone checking in, whether actively or silently, a big thanks to you all. This forum keeps me motivated to fullfill my goal of camping on Poet Creek in my own creation. Now let's go! Get your build on! :thumbsup:

For my next trick... :lol: :lol: :lol: ;) :R

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Last edited by KCStudly on Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:23 pm

“ Damn the expense !!! Full Speed ahead !!! “ ... :thumbsup:
There’s no place like Foam !
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:59 pm

On Monday I removed the clamps from both door frames from their respective glue ups. Door Frame 1 was all glued up, and Door Frame 2 had no sill or header yet. I decided to lay Door 2 on top of Door 1 to compare.
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Pretty damn close.

So first I scraped down the excess glue on Door 2 so that I could get the header glued on and setting.
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(Shown upside down.)

While I was at it I scraped down Door 1.
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(Also upside down.)

Then back to Door 2 to dry fit the header. Note the additional center block to add stability for the glue up. In hind sight I could have just done the drywall screw & spring clamp method, but I wanted to have consistency between the doors so I did the same thing on 2 that I had done on 1.
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There was a little high spot on the under side of the latch block that was holding the opposite side up off of the table when clamped down, so the box tube is just weighing the assembly down rather than welding a clamp to the table.

Then glue.
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Then I spent some quality time on Door Frame 1. Smoothed all the ever so slightly off joints with the bench plane, and sanded it nice.
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Tonight (Wednesday) I removed the clamps from Door header 2 and scraped that down, did a little planing and sanding. Here's another look at how I cut the biscuits down using the "Bob Vila" cutters.
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Not sure why I cut these down ahead of time because with them hanging off of the bench I could have done it later and had less to fill, but like I said, I was just repeating what I had done previously.

Here's the dry fit of Door 2 sill plate.
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And a detail shot of the glue up.
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Karl had left an open can of bearing grease with a brush sticking out of it on the bench, so rather than get myself all messy cleaning the brush off and putting the lid on the can (so it did not get full of saw dust) I just stuck a rubber glove over it with the brush handle sticking up into one of the fingers... artistic?
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Okay, back to Door 1. Here's a comparison of the bottom bearing flush trim router bit (1/2 inch OD, 1/4 inch shank) in the router, and the top bearing bit of the same description sitting on the router shoe. Pic was taken just before swapping out the bits.
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I arbitrarily started on the top corner of the door, attached the outside radius template using the double sided carpet tape and jumped right into routing the corner. Learned right away the difference between the top and bottom bearing bits. With the bottom bearing you can come in at a little angle and the cutter won't bite until the shoe is squared up. While running the bottom bearing is more stable because the bit is stabilized by the shoe at the top and the bearing at the bottom. The top bearing bit, on the other hand, is much more reliant on holding the shoe nice and true to the work. Get a little sloppy and let your grips turn off plane to where the shoe tips a little and wham, instant Eeyore! The bearing must have slipped off of the top of the template allowing the cutter portion to dig into both the corner block and the template. Oops.
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About this time I was wishing that I had started on the bottom of the door where my learning curve would have been less obvious.

It can be fixed. Polyester filler (Bondo) to the rescue.
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Filled.
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While I was at it I filled a few of the screw head counter sinks and the small voids where the biscuits didn't fill out the biscuit slots.
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Rough sanded.
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Then I had to fix the template. So I stuck it on with the edges sticking off just a tad, switched back to the bottom bearing bit, and ran the router around with the bearing riding on the good portion of the original trimming.
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Which took care of fixing the template without having to start from scratch.
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Did that to the other top corner, since it was already hanging off of the bench, then I switched to the window inside corners. First I held the template up and just traced a pencil line for the rough cut.
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Then I zipped it out close to the line using the cordless jigsaw.
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Then I aligned the template using a small block to check for flush. Also note that I switched to using countersunk drywall screws to hold the template. I found this method to be easier to apply more accurately, more secure (the tape allowed the template to move a little if forced) and I think it will be quicker for multiple applications rather than cutting, applying and peeling up tape for each application.
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Back to the top bearing bit, which worked better once I used the proper care. Template on top, so less flipping of the part, and no issues with the cutter not taking all of a slightly fat rough cut (since the bottom of the bit also cuts, unlike the top of the bottom bearing bit).
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Here is the routed inside window corner with the template removed.
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Getting the sand paper stapled into place on the cut off piece using the staple tacker was a little tricky, and ...I know, I know, why bother sanding here when it is all going to be covered by canvas or paneling and the window trim/frame, but I just couldn't resist giving it a little finishing touch. Call it an urge to be a better cabinet maker... practice honing my techniques for later when it counts.
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Leaned Door 1 up against the outside of the barn for a little color contrast, The top outer corners are trimmed flush and the upper right window corner is too.
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All I had time for this evening. I'm very happy with it so far. Looks almost just like the plan.

Nighty night.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:13 am

QUOTE : “ I just stuck a rubber glove over it with the brush handle sticking up into one of the fingers... artistic? “ Er, NO !!! More Obscene... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Those are sure some Nice doors !!! 8)
There’s no place like Foam !
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby bonnie » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:25 am

GPW made me laugh.

I think your wood work is amazing, opps and all. I love the fact it's coming together for you.
Remember, the turtle won. :)
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