thinking of building a foamie...

[Trogdor]

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of planning a teardrop build, I am currently planning on building a wooden frame teardrop but am really attracted to building a foamie!

It looks like a nice simple way of building one I do have a few questions tho! Don't worry, I am not going to ask about bear proofness, its not such a big issue in the UK, however finding suitable foam is! I had to travel 30 miles to get some extruded polystyrene, another type of foam is a lot more common here which is not as dense and has foil on both sides. So does anyone know of any good suppliers as I am also struggling finding 4 x 8 pieces.

By the way I realise 30 miles is prob not far to most of you!

My other question is about the roof, I really want to skin this with aluminum but am not sure if its possible with a foamie?

I am planning on using glassfibre cloth for the outer covering, will titebond II adhere this to the foam? Also do people know what the UK equipment of latex paint is? Its not referee to that here! Am planning on using exterior masonry paint at the mo.

Thanks for any replies, I have beening reading all the threads here which have some great info, but quite long winded! Am about 150 pages into the main thread!

[GPW]

Trog , check Insulation supply houses and renovations contractors ... You may want to check under the name Depron...

30 miles with foam ... not on the tube eh ...

[Trogdor]

Actually the first piece of foam I got I brought back on the bus as I pass a B&Q on the way from work. Luckily the bus was pretty empty, but the wind made it difficult!

Currently I am only using smallish pieces of foam to test coatings etc, the extruded foam for example is 1200mm by 500mm which is an awkward size, requiring 9 pieces on each side. But I have found some Dow floor insulation in 2500mm by 600mm which would only need two and a small bit per side.

Thanks for the depron tip, will take a look, is irritating as they make this Dow foam here!

[GPW]

The foam , being a homogenous material, can easily be fixed together in small sections, and still offer the same structural benefits as a single sheet ... once skinned ... that’s why it’s so easy to repair ..

On the bus... just as bad init’

[atahoekid]

I though of using an aluminum skin on my build and looked into bonding the aluminum to the foam. I contacted the company that makes Gorilla Glue (not sure what the British equivalent is) and asked them. They were confident that it would hold very well. They recommended a paper thin coat of the glue over the entire surface, misting the adjoining surface and using even clamping pressure. No real special treatment or preparations needed. My other thought was to "float" the aluminum over the foam and use mechanical fasteners where I could insert them into some of the structure but passed on the idea. In a SIP, I believe a lot of the strength comes from the bonding of the skins to the core. Good Luck, let us know what you decide to do.

[Trogdor]

Ah that is interesting!,

Thanks for the information, I can get hold of gorilla glue here from Ebay along with Titebond glues, you can even buy it from certain stores. I will give that a go, I have foam and I should have some aluminium sheet kicking around!

I was also thinking of mechanical fasteners but I wasn't sure how to incorporate them into the structure, if I was going to that trouble I may as well go with my first plan of building a steam bent wood frame for the teardrop, (I still am considering this, but the cost is putting me off, am just a poor PhD student at the mo )

I am thinking I would want quite thin aluminium, what's the thinnest you can get away with before its not better than foil? 1mm? (Sorry I am not good at imperial!

For anyone that interested here is a pic of my scale model of my wood frame, I will be doing the same design if I go for a foamie,



By the way I have found that the foam sticks quite well with polyurethane wood glue as I have done a sample of this and it took some beating before it would part.

[Trogdor]

Have bought some gorilla glue off Ebay, will see how well aluminium adheres to the foam..........

In my parents garage, I stumbled across an variable voltage 12V DC transformer, it has a dial on the front to allow you to vary the voltage, it might of been a train transformer? Anyway it looks ideal for making into a hot wire cutter.

Now I need to get some titebond II to try out the canvas on the foam.

[KCStudly]

Great model, and cheers to advance planning!

One thing you might want to consider is installing your roof vent the other way around. Wouldn't want the road wind to lift it, causing leaks, or worse. You may want to leave it ajar while traveling in fair weather, and you won't be able to do that in the reverse, lest it be torn off (maybe ).

In my hybrid foamie build, I have often wondered if I should have just added a full profile shaped wooden rail under the ceiling for the ceiling panel and spars to screw into while the glue sets up. Now it looks like a will be adding some more blocks or imbedded dowels down thru the tops of the walls behind the inner panels.

Plan as much as you can in advance. $.02

[ghcoe]

Also, watch your head space. I see that you have two low shelves, one on each end of the bed. You can put one shelf up higher. Usually torso height plus mattress plus some head room. I left the bulkhead empty on my build so that I could have a straight wall to lean against when just sitting in the trailer, reading, eating, hanging out when it rains, ect.

[Trogdor]

Hi George,

Thanks for the advice, I havent finalised the interior yet, i think I will make the shelf at the front into cabinets (so they can be leaned against), they will also likely be not as deep. I think I will make the gallery deeper to compensate.

I bought some titebond 2 today found someone selling it not too far away! Cost £30.00 for a gallon tho! And I didn't realise your gallons were smaller than ours!

Does anyone know what UK equivalent of latex paint is? Also is zisser 123 primer a good one to use? I can't find the kilts one in the UK

I will have a play with the hot wire tomorrow, and see if I can get it to work!

Up to page 180 on the big thread!

[ghcoe]

Does anyone know what UK equivalent of latex paint is? Also is zisser 123 primer a good one to use? I can't find the kilts one in the UK.

As best as I could find out it is called Emulsion Paint over there. Although it is a little vague between latex and acrylic paint.

[Trogdor]

You can get exterior emulsion which has acrylic resin in so I guess that must be it! Is dulux paint so is prob quite pricey!

Do we think exterior masonry paint would work well or would paint designed for wood be better? For adhering to canvas?

Cheers

[GPW]

£30.00 for a gallon of TB2 We assume the paint is also higher ... ... and why ? VAT for one ...
Best keep reading the Big Thrifty thread , maybe you can find an "Thrifty Alternative” ... like salvage ...

[ghcoe]

You can get exterior emulsion which has acrylic resin in so I guess that must be it! Is dulux paint so is prob quite pricey!

Do we think exterior masonry paint would work well or would paint designed for wood be better? For adhering to canvas?

Cheers

I do not like the acrylic/latex paint. I have not tried it on a trailer but I do not like the way it applies. I have a painter friend that said that the acrylic/latex is better if sprayed on. Of course he is referring to painting walls. I do believe that the masonry paint should work good. It is thicker. Wood canvas canoe builders/restorers have been using it with good results for filling their canvas weave. Most are latex, some are oil based. Not sure if anyone here has tried it on foam yet though...

[Trogdor]

Hi,

Yes it was a tad expensive but it was including VAT (25 ex VAT) most things are displayed with VAT included here but not usually in trade places where I got this from so that is odd now I think about it.... Anyway to be honest any other wood glue would be a similar amount, I have been using unibond wood glue as a test for my foam and canvas and that is about 8.00 pounds a litre! and its not waterproof! I am trying to source the same or similar things that other people are using so that I will know it will probably work and if I can have problems then people would have an idea on what I should/shouldn't be doing!

I have been making my way through the big thread, nearly up to page 200! Anyway someone (linuxsomething?) was talking about using contact cement, specifically 3M 30NF cement which I can't find that easily over here, but there is adhesives from 3M that look very interesting, one specifically for bonding foam and another for bonding fabrics, insulation and other lightweight materials, these sound Ideal, the foam stuff you only seem to be able to buy in 20L which is really expensive but the other one is 20.00 pounds for 2L not too bad. There is also a general purpose contact adhesive which is 15.00 a litre (not too great but I guess the coverage would be greater for contact adhesive?).

All of these are water based too

That is good to hear about the masonry paint, I do want something that will cover the texture of the canvas if possible, on my test pieces it has worked well on covering the canvas with some interior emulsion I found, although the finish is terrible as I slapped it on with a brush and the tub was mostly empty so there was loads of dried paint crust getting in the paint plus the paint has loads of vertical cracks in it?

I think that is due to me not waiting long enough for the glue to dry?

But I am pleased with the durability and type of finish I could achieve if I did it properly!

Finally I have been thinking about attaching the aluminium roof, if I use spars like eagle did in her build then I could use those as hard points to mount the aluminium in place, along with the edge trim. I would also use adhesive to hold it in place as well.

I know you guys like pictures but there is not much to see yet, unless you want to see what a 30.00 pound gallon of titebond 2 looks like!

P.s. ghoe, I have been reading your build with great interest, I am intending to copy your construction methods as it looks a very good way of building! I am also currently trying to find corner flashing like you have been using but again I am struggling, honestly this country is useless sometimes!

P.Ps gpw I have also read your foam stream build and have found it very interesting and a great source of information!I am so pleased to have found this forum!