Replacement wheel bearings

[GuitarPhotog]

The wheel bearings on my 1948 trailer are originals, and have old Timken part numbers that I can't seem to cross reference on the Timken site.

Can anyone (Randy?) help me? I'd like to have a spare set of bearings, or at least a cross reference to a modern bearing number in case I have to replace something in the field.

My inner bearing is a Timken A-1216 and the outer is A-1201. It didn't occur to me to measure them while I had them out

<Chas>

[Shadow Catcher]

These appear to be a Model A parts http://www.modelaparts.com/products/788-a1216.aspx and http://www.modelaparts.com/products/767-a1201.aspx
Other sources now that you know where they come from are possible.

[GuitarPhotog]

Excellent!

Thank you very much, I'm going to order some spares right now.

Maybe that's where my axle came from... that would make it already old in '47 when the trailer was built.

<Chas>

[Fyddler]

And I thought it was tough finding parts for my 1977 Vanson boat trailer! I found a name on the hub, turns out to be the original company that turned into Bearing Buddy. I emailed them with the numbers off the hub and they simply replied "we need dimensions", thanks for nothing! If I had the dimensions I wouldn't need to ask you for the part numbers! The super short reply makes me think they are not from around here and are using google translate to reply.

[nevadatear]

Charlie, did you get your bearings? Just now saw the post. If not, pm me and i will have randy check his stock.

[eamarquardt]

And I thought it was tough finding parts for my 1977 Vanson boat trailer! I found a name on the hub, turns out to be the original company that turned into Bearing Buddy. I emailed them with the numbers off the hub and they simply replied "we need dimensions", thanks for nothing! If I had the dimensions I wouldn't need to ask you for the part numbers! The super short reply makes me think they are not from around here and are using google translate to reply.

Harbor Freight sells digital calipers for less than $15. You can measure your spindles and hubs with the calipers and go to virtually any bearing house and they should be able to fix you up. I've had problems with the HF calipers being off a few thousandths but they'll be close enough to identify the bearings.

Hope this helps.

HF, the crap you love to hate.

Cheers,

Gus

[Fyddler]

Thanks for the tip. I love harbor freight for the stuff I do t use often. Brad nailers, calipers. Some tools that I use a lot I spend goodies on, for everything else it's HF!

[GuitarPhotog]

And I thought it was tough finding parts for my 1977 Vanson boat trailer! I found a name on the hub, turns out to be the original company that turned into Bearing Buddy. I emailed them with the numbers off the hub and they simply replied "we need dimensions", thanks for nothing! If I had the dimensions I wouldn't need to ask you for the part numbers! The super short reply makes me think they are not from around here and are using google translate to reply.

Harbor Freight sells digital calipers for less than $15. You can measure your spindles and hubs with the calipers and go to virtually any bearing house and they should be able to fix you up. I've had problems with the HF calipers being off a few thousandths but they'll be close enough to identify the bearings.

Hope this helps.

HF, the crap you love to hate.

Cheers,

Gus

Gus, I have a good digital caliper, but am unclear about how to measure tapered bearings, or spindles. Check the link that Fyddler posted to the Model A parts house to see a picture of the bearings.

Not that I'm in a big hurry to take a wheel off to measure the spindle. Seems easier just to order the Model A part.

Edit: Actually the spindles are straight, it's the wheel side that's tapered, but still....

<Chas>

[eamarquardt]

The bearings contain tapered rollers but the Outside Diameters and Inside Diameters of the bearings are straight/not tapered so measuring them is quite simple. The spindle may have a "step" in it to allow the inner and outer bearings to be of different sizes but the portions where the bearings ride will not be tapered and, again, easy to measure.

Once you get the thing apart it should be easy to measure the spindle and take the hub to a bearing house for a match.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Gus

[GuitarPhotog]

The bearings contain tapered rollers but the Outside Diameters and Inside Diameters of the bearings are straight/not tapered so measuring them is quite simple. The spindle may have a "step" in it to allow the inner and outer bearings to be of different sizes but the portions where the bearings ride will not be tapered and, again, easy to measure.

Once you get the thing apart it should be easy to measure the spindle and take the hub to a bearing house for a match.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Gus

Sorry to have to disagree Gus, but the bearings are tapered on the outside. I copied the pix from the Model A guy's site.

These old bearings have a straight inner surface that rides on the spindle, and a tapered outer side that rides in a conical race surface in the wheel. There is no outer bearing race on the bearing itself.



<Chas>

[CarlLaFong]

No. Model A Fords have regular Timken tapered roller bearings in them. There is a regular outer race in the hub, not the wheel. The whole reason is to have a serviceable, replacement part. If not, when it came time to replace wheel bearings, you'd have to replace the entire hub

This is a pic of a set of wheel bearings for a Model A

[nevadatear]

Chaz, randy has ghe bearings. Will pm you the td discount price!

[GuitarPhotog]

No. Model A Fords have regular Timken tapered roller bearings in them. There is a regular outer race in the hub, not the wheel. The whole reason is to have a serviceable, replacement part. If not, when it came time to replace wheel bearings, you'd have to replace the entire hub

This is a pic of a set of wheel bearings for a Model A

Hmmm, then why does the Model A guy sell just what I showed in the pix? And why was there no evidence of a loose outer race in the hub/brake drum when I removed it?

When I took it apart to repack it last month, I found only the tapered bearing assembly I showed in the pix I copied from the Model A guy's web site http://www.modelaparts.com/products/788-a1216.aspx.

Since my trailer is 65 years old, I have no idea where the wheels/hubs came from. The back plate is welded to a straight tubular axle. The back plate has provision for brakes, though the actuator mechanism is all gone, the mounting bosses and openings are still there. The hub is integral with the brake drum, and the outer bearing race seemed pretty integral with that. I did not however try to remove 65 years of rust and corrosion to see if the outer race is removable from the hub.

I am pretty certain that the hubs and spindle/back plates came from a post-war ford product because the 5 on 5-1/2" 15" wheel size is consistent with '47/48 Ford truck products. But it was probably more common than just that.

The bearings are Timkin A-1216 and A-1201. The only listing I've found is the pointer Shadowcatcher gave in about the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread, which shows only the tapered part.

PS. I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to understand what I've got, and what I need to order for spares. I'm planning an extended trip with the TD this summer and want to carry a greased-up spare set with me. Just in case, you understand ;-)

<Chas>

[pchast]

Hi,

Google says that there are quite a few industrial bearing distributors in your general area.

When I had a problem finding one for an Antique car I took the originals to Kaman Bearing
here in Albany NY. They were happy to have a person check them out and find the odd one
that I needed.

Luck with it.
Pete

[KCStudly]

Hmmm, then why does the Model A guy sell just what I showed in the pix? And why was there no evidence of a loose outer race in the hub/brake drum when I removed it?

He does sell the outer races here http://www.modelaparts.com/products/769-a1202.aspx and here http://www.modelaparts.com/products/790-a1217.aspx, but if I were you I would support a fellow TNTTTer and get what you need from Nevadatear.

The thing you are missing is that Timken sells "cups" (outer bearing races) and "cones" (inner bearing races with caged roller bearings) separately. Sometimes you can get them as sets, and sometimes they come in kits as sets, but not always. They sell them individually so that the same outer race can be used with cones that have different inside diameters (and perhaps vice versa), suiting various applications.

Don't be confused by Tam's reference to "inner" and "outer"; they are referring to the spindle location that the bearing fits (inside at the grease seal, or outside at the spindle nut). I am referring to the bearing set and which piece goes where with regard to each other and the spindle OD (inner race) and hub bore ID (outer race).

You probably didn't notice that the outer race is separate because they are usually pressed into their bores in the hubs with an interference fit and do not usually separate easily (unless they have spun and worn their bore out). If you didn't wipe all of the grease out thoroughly and really look closely where the bearing fits into the bore, you may not have noticed that they are in fact separate pieces.

For some one who does not have the tools or know the proper technique to remove an outer race from the hub it could be very tempting to just put a new cone bearing into the old race, but do NOT do this. It will not last long at all. Once a bearing and race have run together they have become intimate, akin to lapping in a valve, and should not be swapped around.

If you do not have the ability to properly remove and reinstall the races in the hub bores, you can have this done at most automotive parts stores or machine shops for a small fee. You can use a brass punch to remove them (there is usually a small "window" in the casting on the back side of the race where you can get a punch in there to remove), but you definitely DO NOT want to use a punch to put the new ones in. A bearing installation tool or an old race ground down on the outside can be used to press the new races in.

I hope that I have not presumed too much and that this helps clear things up for you.