Bob's caboose build

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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby bobhenry » Tue May 07, 2013 6:37 am

Mike.... I say again, I have a landlord that has tilted at the same windmill and was ground up by the system.

I am gonna start at the top and let the sh** fall.

Our state senator has contributed a lot of time and effort in legislating programs on energy savings and urban development so we will see if he can help me take it off of paper and put it into actual practice.

Our current house repesentative has made similar ovatures so he will be copied as well. My plan is if one knows, the other one knows, they may not be as likely to simply table me as a nut. I will provide e mail contacts on this post so anyone willing can help by showing support for the rights of not just me, but all the tiny house folk.

P.S. Woodbutcher..... The current cell size in indiana is 6x8 :lol: I have a lot more room! :D
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby Woodbutcher » Tue May 07, 2013 7:37 am

Bob, my experience with local laws have always said that if something is not expressly allowed then anything else is not. So the fact that your building does not fit any current description may be what works against you. Most of my dealing with municipalities has been VERY frustrating. They are people that have never had to do anything but look in a book and find a way to deny you. Why, because that is the easiest way to end things. Looking for solutions or seeing that what you want to do is not covered anywhere is work. They won't go there.
If I were you I would not use my jail scenario. That was more you you, as to say they are putting you in jail with their ruling and they don't meet their own criteria. My experiences have also shown me that while you need to firm you can't be rude or threatening in any way or they will just turn you away, and enjoy doing it.
My strategy would be to show them that times are changing. New ways of doing things are evolving. Use the green approach. Smaller dwellings that do not disturb the ground. Less carbon footprint. Less waste in both utilities and trash generated by larger homes. Show websites of tiny homes with examples of where people put them and how the local governments dealt with them. Be careful to show those communities that were welcoming and had a good experience with tiny homes and there owners. Use your arguments as a learning experience for those who's minds you need to change. Other then they don't have a box your project fits in ask them what the reasons for denying you are and what steps need to be taken to allow you to go forward. This has been the process since we stopped living in caves and moved into log cabins and tee pees. But somewhere along the way someone wanted to live in a mobile home and had to do what you are asking now. Others wanted to live in a townhouse, sharing walls and common grounds. All these required rearranging of the ways we were use to living. So what you are asking is no different. You just need to get them to see that this is a movement that is coming whether they like it or not. You just happen to be the first they are seeing of it. But you are there to educate them not fight with them, and to find a solution. My suggestion, show them compelling arguments in favor of this . Then request a temporary variance, because you are not currently governed by a statute. Ask for a 3 year variance. At the end of that time your project would be evaluated. If they found you to be unworthy for ANY reason they could with draw their variance and you put the wheels on you home and drive away. Before you do that go to all the neighboring properties and ask for their blessing. You should also keep the property in pristine condition. Lawn always mowed, plant flowers, the place has to be charming. The same interest must be present that is there with our tiny campers. You know what happens where we drive into a camp ground with big 5th wheels and giant motor homes. They often times just dismiss us as Kooks. But once they see what we are doing they understand, and often compliment us on how streamlined or setups are.
I wish you well. I just caution you to go in smiling, not with guns drawn. These people are not usually reasonable, they don't have to be, they work for the government and unfortunately "we the people" are not who they work for.
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby bobhenry » Tue May 07, 2013 8:38 am

Steve.... That was well expressed and you will see I stole it :D

OK we are normally asked not to red pen, correct ,or make light of others posts but I want you to red pen the hell out of this soon to be email.

I want it right when it goes. So help me and remember we are linked to both the senator and my representative in the house so play nice.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Senator Daniel Coats
And Representative Todd Rokita

The desire for clean air, clean water and a safe environment are important goals shared by everyone. I support responsible environmental legislation that protects the environment, while also protecting the rights of individuals and businesses. Todd Rokita

This letter is directed to two men whom I feel have the above goals in their agendas. I am writing because I have spent the last 11 months building a tiny house and now find it illegal for anyone to live in less than 750 square feet in Indiana. I knew after the loss of my wife I would be unable to hang on long on one income with the debt load that we had formerly shared so I started building my tiny house. I was to be a last resort, an economic lifeboat to house me in comfort in the most efficient manner possible if needed. I retired last August at 62 in concern to get it locked in before the elections. I was aware the 1500+ benefits would not begin to provide enough to fulfill my financial obligations so my planning was starting to prove out.
I have continued to work and used up the benefits that I was eligible for in fixing my car and keeping the bills paid and to have heat for the winter. I no longer have social security benefits available for the remainder of 2013 as I have exceeded the maximum earnings and once again am flowing out to sea on the waves of debt. I placed the house on short sale in March to alleviate the house payment and used what disposable income I had to keep current with all other creditors and what was left went into the tiny house construction. I have been working with the state department of transportation to purchase "salvage” property left over after the relocation of S.R. 28 near Frankfort IN. The property is right across from where I work and will save the gas and time I now invest in my 52 mile round trip commute to and from work. The DOT grinds so slow it is maddening. I have to rezone the property for a single unit campground on special exception because there are no rights or precedence’s for tiny houses especially when it’s on wheels. Not an RV not a mobile home not a standard framed home but shares some features of all. To the Clinton County zoning board it "is" an RV hence it needs to be in a campground. I suppose if they thought it was kinda sorta like a mobile home I would have to file special exemption for a one unit mobile home park.

I am linking in my build thread. It is lengthy, but well illustrated and shows the care in design and strength of the tiny home’s framing.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=47804
The last two pages document the problems I am having with Tippecanoe county and placing the tiny house where I have just leased a 1500 square foot shop.

I will end with the most recent post on page 32 of the thread above from a very wise fellow from Illinois. He makes a lot of sense and exposes the crux of the problem experienced here and elsewhere.

Bob, my experience with local laws have always said that if something is not expressly allowed then anything else is not. So the fact that your building does not fit any current description may be what works against you. Most of my dealing with municipalities has been VERY frustrating. They are people that have never had to do anything but look in a book and find a way to deny you. Why, because that is the easiest way to end things. Looking for solutions or seeing that what you want to do is not covered anywhere is work. They won't go there.
If I were you I would not use my jail scenario. That was more you you, as to say they are putting you in jail with their ruling and they don't meet their own criteria. My experiences have also shown me that while you need to be firm you can't be rude or threatening in any way or they will just turn you away, and enjoy doing it.
My strategy would be to show them that times are changing. New ways of doing things are evolving. Use the green approach. Smaller dwellings that do not disturb the ground. Less carbon footprint. Less waste in both utilities and trash generated by larger homes. Show websites of tiny homes with examples of where people put them and how the local governments dealt with them. Be careful to show those communities that were welcoming and had a good experience with tiny homes and there owners. Use your arguments as a learning experience for those who's minds you need to change. Other than they don't have a box for your project to fit in ask them what the reasons for denying you are and what steps need to be taken to allow you to go forward. This has been the process since we stopped living in caves and moved into log cabins and tee pees. But somewhere along the way someone wanted to live in a mobile home and had to do what you are asking now. Others wanted to live in a townhouse, sharing walls and common grounds. All these required rearranging of the ways we were use to living. So what you are asking is no different. You just need to get them to see that this is a movement that is coming whether they like it or not. You just happen to be the first they are seeing of it. But you are there to educate them, not fight with them, and to find a solution. My suggestion, show them compelling arguments in favor of this . Then request a temporary variance, because you are not currently governed by a statute. Ask for a 3 year variance. At the end of that time your project could be evaluated. If they found you to be unworthy for ANY reason they could withdraw their variance and you put the wheels on you home and drive away. Before you do that, go to all the neighboring properties and ask for their blessing. You should also keep the property in pristine condition. Lawn always mowed, plant flowers, the place has to be charming. The same interest must be present that is there with our tiny campers. You know what happens where we drive into a camp ground with big 5th wheels and giant motor homes. They often times just dismiss us as Kooks. But once they see what we are doing they understand, and often compliment us on how streamlined or setups are.
I wish you well. I just caution you to go in smiling, not with guns drawn. These people are not usually reasonable, they don't have to be, they work for the government and unfortunately "we the people" are not who they work for.

I am in hopes you can take a moment from your busy schedule to intercede for me and others who would like to embrace this simpler, greener, and more economic mode of housing. Washington State and Oregon have embraced the tiny lifestyle and have even offered state help to develop this trend. At current all Ken Brown the Tippecanoe County building commissioner can tell me is build it bigger and more wasteful.

Robert L. Henry
309 E. South St. until the bank take it back!
Linden, IN 47955
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby bobhenry » Wed May 08, 2013 2:06 pm

Well, I polished and polished and decided to go ahead and e-mail it on. It went to the Senator , our district representative, the lieutenant govenor, and ........

Mara Snyder, Director
Legal and Code Services
Indiana Department of Homeland Security

Who has already replied for additional info to be able to jump in on this.
I may have found a good friend in government.

Who would have thought homeland security would lead the charge
on this type of a problem :thinking:
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby mezmo » Wed May 08, 2013 9:29 pm

Hi Bob,

I vaguely remember hearing/seeing-something about this book
before, but luckily I came across it again tonight. It sounds like just
the thing you need to get to aid you in your quest.

Cracking The Code – A Guide to building codes and zoning for tiny houses:

http://tinyhousetalk.com/cracking-the-b ... se+Talk%29

Here's a link to purchase it:
http://www.thetinylife.com/store/

'Hope this is of help.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby bobhenry » Thu May 09, 2013 6:14 am

I have been looking at that very book for about a week. The problem is each state is different ,each municapality is different and all content is subject to interpetation. I just need some one higher up to drop the hammer down stairs.
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby Woodbutcher » Thu May 09, 2013 7:10 am

Good luck Bob! Hope this works out. :worship:
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby bobhenry » Mon May 13, 2013 6:30 am

Well it's Monday and while i WAS busy it doesn't look like much got done.

Installed the 2 1/2" square tube corner rails and mocked up the rear railing..

Image

Then I went inside and drilled the trusses for the bed lifting railings. They were a set of truck bed rails that made up a bed rack system. I bought them 14 years ago and they didn't fit so today they became parts for the bed lifting system.

Image

Had this futon for parts and desided some parts would be useful so I modified the support legs and will use them to help install the lift rails.

Image

Took the center legs and modified them by cutting the ears off

Image

They will be drilled and screwed into place to help support the weight of the bed.

Image

Image

Wait till you see what I did with some of the other parts from the futon frame.

I gotta get a picture :D
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby pjo129 » Mon May 13, 2013 12:02 pm

Bob,

I just got caught up on your build. For some reason I was not getting the email from tnttt about new posts. :(

Great job! 8) Sorry about your troubles with the zoning and permits.

Looking forward to seeing you this weekend.
Pete Olson
Newburgh, IN

"Patrol Box" camper build thread http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=55583

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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby bobhenry » Tue May 14, 2013 6:36 am

So what do you do with left over futon frame parts......... :thinking:









Image


Here are where the legs wound up !

I could not add the grab bars that are usually on the sides of the caboose as it would have put me over the maximum 8'6" for road worthyness.I still wanted the look so I added them to the rear observation platform. I will stencil on the "S&FW" railroad logo vertically on the center band later.
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby Woodbutcher » Tue May 14, 2013 6:55 am

That worked out perfect Bob! Good work.
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby bobhenry » Tue May 14, 2013 6:58 am

Yep! I just hate throwing away perfectly good Junque. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby bobhenry » Thu May 16, 2013 9:50 am

Signed the rental contract for the 50 x 60 steel building last night! :D

14' ceilings and a nice concrete floor. It's gonna store all the little trailers, the Goldwing and my Grand Wagoneer and still have room for a hugh shop and maybe even a corner for a couch and television area for a man cave !

The landloard even hinted we might enlarge the roll door so a certain red/orange building could get inside where no one will even know it's in there ! :thumbsup:

Have it planned to have the 96 hour yard sale on Memorial day weekend and now what doesn't sell will have a home :beer:
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby Verna » Thu May 16, 2013 10:40 am

Congrats, Bob!!! Your perserverance is admirable.....ATTA BOY!!! See you this weekend :thumbsup:
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Re: Bob's caboose build

Postby mezmo » Thu May 16, 2013 11:18 pm

"Enlarge roll door..." - Nothing wrong with an "Interior Campground"...
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