Insulation Problem -- am I hosed?

[Rustic313]

Hello!

This is my first post and I'm hoping to get some advice/help! I am converting a beautiful new cargo trailer into a camper/toy hauler. It is a 6x12 v-nose with ramp from Cargo Outlet (GA). The build quality is great. The problem is... no insulation in the walls. I should have had it installed at the factory and I just overlooked it when ordering.

CLIFF'S NOTES SUMMARY FOR THE TL/DR TYPES:
No insulation in the walls -- Should I leave it as is and hope for the best, do a full tear down, or try something else?


The trailer has two windows, a fuel hatch (for window AC), and an RV-style door installed already. The walls are sheets of plywood screwed into the metal struts. There is stripping over the top of the plywood which is stapled down and glued (liquid nails, possibly). Due to all the stuff in the walls and the stripping, I'm pretty sure that tearing down the plywood to do a standard foam-panel install for insulation is going to be a mess. I think I will probably destroy most of the plywood in the process, and I'm worried about the doors/windows/hatch areas in particular.

I do plan on doing the best I can with the roof. I have the special white RV roof paint and I was planning on a false ceiling with ~2" of insulation up top. I have a Fantastic Vent roof van and a second unpowered roof vent for ventilation. On shore power I will have a 5000 BTU window AC. The trailer will primarily be used in the hot, humid southeast and possibly in the arid desert southwest. I'd like to be able to do some boondocking, relying on the roof fan, an endless breeze fan, and maybe a swamp cooler (in the desert). I hope to get at least 5-6 years out of it before I upgrade to something else.

I was wondering if anyone has any advice among these insulation options, or something I haven't thought of yet.

LEAVE IT AS IS
Hopefully the good insulation job on the ceiling will be sufficient. The rear ramp door, single pane windows, and big RV door were going to be insulation problems anyways.

I am just really concerned that I'm going to have a beautiful custom trailer which I've invested a fair amount of additional work into for other systems (electrical, beds, cabinets, etc) that ends up being unusable because it isn't insulated properly.

If anyone has an un-insulated trailer and can share their experience that'd be helpful!

TRADITIONAL TEAR DOWN WITH POLYISO PANEL INSTALL
I think this will destroy much of the plywood. I'm worried about the existing doors/windows as well. On the plus side, we know that the polyiso board install works, and I have nice 1" struts with plenty of space.

FURRING WITH FALSE WALL
I could put in some 1x1" boards on top of the current 3/8" plywood walls, fill the space with polyiso boards, and then put 1/2" plywood over top. This avoids any damage or structural problems with the window/door. It does cost me 3" of interior space, and is somewhat expensive and time consuming.

GREEN FIBER BLOW IN INSULATION
I know that traditional fiberglass insulation is a Bad Idea in trailers as it settles and is scratchy/nasty to breathe. I was looking at this "GreenFiber" stuff which is also a blow-in style.
http://www.greenfiber.com/

It would likely also settle in the walls but at least it isn't nasty to breathe, nor is it itchy. Even though it settles it would be better than what I have now (i.e. nothing). I could use a circular saw screwdriver bit to put some holes in the plywood wall and then blow in the insulation. Glue the plywood circles back into place with some caulk/dicor and it should be all sealed up again.

ROXUL BATTING
Roxul is a mineral wool. I have access to the top of a few of the panels so I could potentially slide some batting down inside. I could also drill the circular holes as with the green fiber blow-in install and stuff as much batting in as possible. The biggest issue I see is that it is 3.5" thick and I only have 1" to work with behind the plywood.

EXPANDABLE FOAM
I thought about putting a bunch of cans of the stuff in there, or hiring a pro to squirt some in, but I have concerns about gaps (moisture/rot areas), bulging out the aluminum sides, or causing structural problems if the foam doesn't allow any flex.

CLOSED CELL FOAM CAMPING PADS
I have access to the top of a few panels. I was thinking of sliding flexible closed cell foam sleeping pads (1/2") down into the spaces, perhaps with some weights (or a string pulled through a hole at the bottom of the panel). The R-value on this will be low but it is easy.


Thanks for any advice or thoughts on the issue!

[PaulS]

When I did my 6X14 I took everything down (plywood) and put in the pink foam and then used. Great stuff where there were gaps

[pchast]

Welcome.

Pictures would help... I can't visualize your ply and strip covering.
At any rate, if you are doing that dropped ceiling you have an
opportunity to blow in some foam through holes above the ceiling.
I think I'd talk to a pro home insulator.

[roadinspector]

Greetings AB!

Welcome aboard. I personally don't see that your screwed. I have used one of these, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-12-in-Wonder-Bar-55-515K/100093815 (with light taps from a hammer)to remove thin strips of plywood from another with minimal damage. Without a pic its hard to say but I did have some that was stapled in mine. It was very thin but it was not glued. In the process of removing it, the thin strip was destroyed but the main plywood had very little damage. Any damage that was done I am planning on using wood filler. Good luck and please let us know what you come up with.

Earnest

[Trackstriper]

Yes, picture would help. Have you checked to make sure that there actually is glue applied between the trim ply and the wall ply? I've owned several Pace cargo trailers, which used to be fairly top quality, and the trim was only ever stapled. They did, however, run a bead of silicon caulk here and there at some edges, primarily the joint between the floor and the lower trim work. If you could get a putty knife under the edge of the trim and see if you could lift it you might be able to verify glue. Perhaps you've already done this.

Factory insulation is typically not much, 1" beadboard which is not cut to fit very well. I ordered one trailer insulated and was quite disappointed at what I saw when I replaced the wall plywood to get a better grade of material. If you open up the walls you can do a much better job yourself. You probably would not destroy the 3/8" (or whatever thickness) base plywood even if glue was used. The trim ply would be shot though.

[Prem]

IF I had it to do over again in my cargo trailer, I'd do this to eliminate all condensation (and the resulting mold growth) from happening in air pockets behind the sheet foam I installed:



I spray foamed the entire inside walls of a bus conversion once. Wow. Was it well insulated.

No cargo trailer manufacturer (that I have ever heard of) will do spray foam for ya.

My 2 cents.

[Treeview]

I would ONLY pull the walls and insulate NOW. First things first.

If there are staples they're not hard to pull neatly. There are a number of ways to lift the staple a bit for pulling. A tiny Wonder Bar or even a worn out flat blade screw driver. Pry up just enough to get a bit of staple above the surface. Then get yourself some nippers. These are for cutting tile but there are tools like this for pulling nails, I have one that is about 7" and one that it about 13". Invaluable for demo work.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/QEP-Compound ... f2xIFN-pm0

Install as much insulation as you possibly can. The payback in comfort and cost will be just as important as at home. Use spray foam or weatherstripping foam to fill nooks and crannies.

When it's time to reinstall the plywood find some screws like these:

https://www.northcoastelectric.com/NCE_ ... 707285.jpg

Self tapping flat heads. Using a clutch-drive drill you'll have a smooth surface.

If you opt for one of you other 'solutions' I think that you'll regret it every day.

Besides, once you start to finish off the interior with cabinets etc. you're working further and further away from the possibility of ever pulling off the walls and doing proper insulation.

Tom

[jwhite]

Doing the insulation yourself is not hard at all, I had no problem taking down the plywood and after putting in the foam sheets in place putting it back up.
I does help to have a 4x8 sheet of plywood for a work table and a long board to use as a guide, I took a long bladed knife and all you have to do is cut it about half way through and it will break in half.
If you cut the sheets close they will stay on there own, but I took duct tape and sealed all the cracks.
the spray can filler works good but it's best to use rubber gloves because it sticks to everything, really hard to get it off your hands.
You may only need 1 layer but I used 2 layers and it came out flush with the metal studs.
You will probably will want to cover the plywood with something to make the inside look better, I glued carpet on the walls and it looks great.

[bc toys]

it would be in your best bet to take it all the way down and insolate it with pink or blue board and put it all back together if you # the boards as you take them apart it will go better as for windows you can remove trim rings and leave window in but I would use blue painters tape to help hlod them in tell ypu get done and get a few cans of exspanding foam to spray around areas where the board is not fitting thight well good luck on what ever you do

[Rustic313]

Thanks for the quick responses. I was hoping someone would say, "Oh, you'll be fine with just doing the ceiling -- don't worry!"


I'm still figuring out how to post pictures. I did some minor removal of trim so I could see what was going on with my walls and do some recon. I have:

• Aluminum skin of trailer
• Vertical 1" metal frame struts every 16" or so
• Two sheets of 3/8" plywood screwed to struts -- a top (high) and bottom (low) sheet; plywood screwed to metal frame struts
• Horizontal plywood strips about 4" across stapled over the gap between the two plywood sheets, with some sort of glue/liquid nails type adhesive also holding them on; horizontal strips also present along the top and bottom of the plywood sheets, and some vertical ones too

Some of the screws holding plywood to frame come out easily. About half will not budge, either with handheld or electric screw driver.

The RV windows look like they are easy to work around. I pulled the screws off and the inner frame popped right off. No problem there. The doors & fuel port look like a problem, though -- they are directly screwed to the plywood from inside and outside, and both are one solid piece (no inner frame to just pop off).

I tried pulling radiant barrier down (had a roll of it around) through a wall using a string going through a hole that will be used for a plug later. No dice, the radiant barrier stuff ripped and tore.

I'll keep folks posted and try to figure out the picture functions. I am not handy at all so this is a learning experience.

[roadinspector]

I'll keep folks posted and try to figure out the picture functions. I am not handy at all so this is a learning experience.

Learning experiences are good! Makes me fell like I actually accomplished something.

Good luck!
Earnest

[Rainier70]

I would take the plywood off now and insulate. You are better off insulating it than having the factory do it. I haven't seen anyone yet that is happy with the factory insulation job when it is compared to what an owner does. I taped my insulation seams with an alum tape from Harbor Freight. It was inexpensive and has held well.

If you do one side at a time, you can just put the plywood back up in the same place and use the original screw holes. If some edges or molding are damaged just get some new molding to cover them. Be sure and tape your window in place on the outside when you take the trim ring off. I would hate to see it fall out when you bump the wall.

Good luck!

[beccae]

Question-I thought I read somewhere on the forum that spray foam tends to crumble from road vibration?