OverTheTopCargoTrailer 7 x 16

[MtnDon]

Have you ever tried to disconnect dc under load to see the fire

Not usually unless it was designed for the job.
I've seen a video showing a fuse flame arc that caused the box (plastic) to melt and burn.


Some DC breakers are also rated for use as a disconnect as well as being an overcurrent protection circuit breaker.
Xantrex has two, Eaton has a few (PVGard) as does Airpax, and there are likely others. But not all.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

MtnDon

80 amp breaker.JPG (122.23 KiB) Viewed 2134 times

Here is what I'm thinking to replace the 63 amp din rail breaker by tomorrow for more testing.

lucky I had breaker already as they cost $50, cable #4 AWG stranded welding / battery rated at 105 deg was $2.99 per ft & $4 for 2 lugs
solar can be expensive hobby. Maybe 24 amp batteries are coming next

I was thinking both charge controllers need to be set for the exact same voltage, as to bulk & absorb for sure
and both charge controllers would share the load hopefully.

P>S> I saw a video of a guy standing in front of a 270-480v panel & 100% of his clothing caught on fire in a millisecond flash....
they make special burn proof clothing if you work with higher power ......ie not GOD for example.

[bdosborn]

Here is what I'm thinking to replace the 63 amp din rail breaker by tomorrow for more testing.

I wouldn't yet, the breaker may be tripping because of a fault in your equipment or an overload. Have you called Outback yet? Also, the Outback has all kinds of annunciation, are there any error codes or something?

I was thinking both charge controllers need to be set for the exact same voltage, as to bulk & absorb for sure
and both charge controllers would share the load hopefully.

I would set them at the same voltage but I wouldn't expect them to ever share the loads equally. There's too many variables that can affect the output of each system to expect them to exactly share the load.

Have you measured the panel voltage in full sun yet?

Bruce

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Hi Bruce

It does not seam to give me problems if it's pulling 50 amps to charge the battery
Only when the inverter is connected

Maybe it's that bus bar issue ..... Vs direct connection to the battery ?

Also I just noticed I had #6 wire on the 63 amp breaker - however its 105 wire and only 12" long
That should not overheat over 12"
When it shuts off - the inverter goes blank - shows nothing , no fault codes
Don't know what Outback would tell me ??
When it's cold in the morning the panels read 137 volts - less when hot during the day. Maybe 125 ?

The inverter does 1500 watts - up to 2100 , but I have it limited to a 100 amp blue sea breaker like in the
Picture above, it starts the ac ok , at first 47 amps , then 50 amps and finally goes to 54 amps - maybe because
The volts drops a little from 14.4 to 13.9 ??


If the charge controllers share 50/50 or 60/40 would be no problem,
If only one did 100% then - the same problem, fuse goes off


Jerry

[lrrowe]

Well Bob

Not to make you feel bad, but 90% of most folks have a F U system,
You really need to perfectly match the panel, the charge controller, the inverter & the battery, the wires & fuses.
Your system has to be good enough to equalize your battery system.
I would guess at least a grand for a 250 watt system that you install.

Also the smaller RV panels still cost a lot, house panels 240 watt & 30 volts are under $1 watt
But then there is $150 shipping .... So you really get it coming and going
If you can get a stinky $100 gen set - that may actually work for you -

Just don't park next to me PLEASE !!

Not to worry Jerry. I will not get one of those HF $100 units even while it is tempting. But I am getting close to getting a Honda EU2000i. Would that be ok?

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

The Honda is great , I may need to get one too
Actually I heard if you also get a propane kit it's even better


From my Manuel page 64 - on too high volts


High VOC This indicates the PV array’s open circuit voltage is too high for the controller to
safely operate. This should only occur with systems using 72 VDC nominal PV arrays in very cold temperatures (below 5° F / -15° C). The controller will automatically restart operation once the PV array’s open circuit voltage falls to a safe level (145 VDC or lower). The amount of time required before starting operation is dependent on the module type, ambient temperature, and the amount of sunlight directly on the PV array. Normally, the controller starts in the morning within a few minutes of the PV array being in direct sunlight.

Jerry

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Found this also


FLEXmax 80
The Charge Controller is a buck type converter with the following properties: • 80 amp DC output current limit (default setting)

• Listed to operate continuously at 80 amps (40°C/104° F)
With an 80 amp Charge Controller output current limit and PV array output higher than 80 amps offers little, if any, current boosting or Maximum Power Point Tracking advantage; in eect, any excess power beyond 80 amps is lost.


For NEC* compliance and the Charge Controller’s 80 amp output rating / MPPT capabilities, the largest PV array input must not exceed a rated short-circuit current of 64 amps.

[bdosborn]

It does not seam to give me problems if it's pulling 50 amps to charge the battery
Only when the inverter is connected

What's the state of charge of your battery? Are you pulling 50 amps charging the batteries and then it trips out when you add a more load via the inverter?

Maybe it's that bus bar issue ..... Vs direct connection to the battery ?

Shouldn't be, the current will divide equally whether its combined at a bus bar or at the battery.

Also I just noticed I had #6 wire on the 63 amp breaker - however its 105 wire and only 12" long
That should not overheat over 12"

Nope, a #6 is good for 50 amps per NEC in conduit, more in free air.

When it shuts off - the inverter goes blank - shows nothing , no fault codes

The inverter or the controller?

Don't know what Outback would tell me ??

Maybe why it's tripping at 54 amps instead of 80?

When it's cold in the morning the panels read 137 volts - less when hot during the day. Maybe 125 ?

Yup, PV voltage is inversely proportional to temp. Given how hot your array has been, I doubt it's a PV voltage issue. Can you read the array voltage from the controller when it's charging?

The inverter does 1500 watts - up to 2100 , but I have it limited to a 100 amp blue sea breaker like in the
Picture above, it starts the ac ok , at first 47 amps , then 50 amps and finally goes to 54 amps - maybe because
The volts drops a little from 14.4 to 13.9 ??

I think that means your loading the controller with the inverter. I think you might me overloading your controller by loading it with the inverter while your trying to charge a discharged battery?

If the charge controllers share 50/50 or 60/40 would be no problem,
If only one did 100% then - the same problem, fuse goes off

I have two controllers with two arrays and they seem to play well with each other, people parallel controllers all the time without any issues.

Bruce

[MtnDon]

Found this also...
FLEXmax 80
The Charge Controller... the following properties: • 80 amp DC output current limit (default setting) .... ..... For NEC* compliance and the Charge Controller’s 80 amp output rating / MPPT capabilities, the largest PV array input must not exceed a rated short-circuit current of 64 amps.

Yes, they are talking about the breaker on the input side of the CC.
I thought the 63 amp breaker that is tripping is on the output side of the CC?
The output side can have an 80 amp breaker if output is expected to reach the 80 amp maximum output.

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Bruce

OverTheTopCargoTrailer wrote:
When it shuts off - the inverter goes blank - shows nothing , no fault codes
SORRY - charge controller of course

I meant charge controller trips !! And goes blank !!
Inverter works great.
Of course the battery is FULL - when I turn on the AC - no brainier
Don't see how #6 wire in free air 12" long would give me greef, it's rated 105 deg - not 75 deg
It's also welding cabel - not standard wire
So it will carry a higher load , besides wire is not melted or damaged.
And we also are not even getting that load
so wire cannot be issue


Will try #4 and 80 amp breaker tomorrow for the cc output to the battery.

MtnDon - yes it's the 63 dc tripping on the cc output side ,
It's seams like you guys are all confused when I put in a wrong word

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

New dc breaker 80 amp blue Sea is installed with #4 welding cabel

80 amp breaker.JPG (122.23 KiB) Viewed 2062 times

e panel 9.JPG (125.67 KiB) Viewed 2062 times

Now I remember why I despise Outback Flex 80 -
The case was designed by a Moron engineer

e panel 10.JPG (131.18 KiB) Viewed 2062 times

All the friggin holes for the wires are on the far left side
And all the lugs are on the far right side , if the morans moved the holes 2" right
It would be 10,000 times easier to run the wires. They would all be a straight shot , it's so tight it's impossible to install wire clamps, well at least they put in a plastic ring ? Don't know how they got UL rating - well what do they care ?
The ground clamp - requires its on level of PIA wire twisting.
Overall It's so PIA tight in there - no way you could even fit #2 wire if your life depended on it.
On top of that there are some 2-3 small red resisters there that you can bend & break off without even knowing.

It's obviously the case that the Moron who designed it - NEVER INSTALLED IT

Here is my morning rant


If this plan does not work, then I will have to change my name to Ho Lee Fuk - solar trailer....
after the name of the fake Korean pilot who crashed at SFO

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

BREAKING NEWS

California Gov Moonbeam today is giving drivers licenses to all Illegal aliens
& $10 per hour min wages to all.....
& domestic workers to get paid time & a half for all overtime work.


My prediction, soon the other 48 states will be empty,
who won't wanna live in California when its better then Schlaraffenland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockaigne

GOD bless Gov Moonbeam


http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-legislature-20130913,0,4343595.story


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-minimum-wage-20130913,0,1527959.story


http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Domestic-Workers-Bill-of-Rights-passes-Legislature-4810133.php

[MtnDon]

Yes, it is stupidly tight when larger wires are used.



That is not quite finished, but I could not find a photo of the completed setup. I bent the wire that goes from the breaker on the lower right to inside the case with vice grips. Nice 90 degree bends. The incoming is so large as this setup has the PV array 325 feet from the CC and batteries. Drilled a new hole for the ground lead.

~~~~~

I feel the pain re the drivers license. NM has been issuing them for years and it annoys me to no end. Worst thing is you can not tell a license issued to an illegal from a legal one. dumbshit$

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

MtnDon

I think you forgot to connect the positive to the battery
How the hell did you get that wire connected ?

I have special drill $30 - to drill hole in metal cabinets , bet they would sh** bricks if it came in for warranty work

I just did something stupid - maybe fried the AC ??
Forgot to open the trailer door - will see what happens latter?
So I can't really use this test result for the last test !!


Also need to go to work - so no more fun today

Jerry

[bdosborn]

Found this also...
FLEXmax 80
The Charge Controller... the following properties: • 80 amp DC output current limit (default setting) .... ..... For NEC* compliance and the Charge Controller’s 80 amp output rating / MPPT capabilities, the largest PV array input must not exceed a rated short-circuit current of 64 amps.

Yes, they are talking about the breaker on the input side of the CC.
I thought the 63 amp breaker that is tripping is on the output side of the CC?

That's what I thought. Is the breaker on the input or the output of the charge controller? I would change the panels from series to all parallel if the circuit breaker is on the input.
Bruce