Tear without hatch

[Cdash]

Good day all,

My question for those that don't want to read all of the below dissertation: If I build a 5' wide x 10' long tear without a rear galley, but with front cabinets, will it be too flimsy due to the lack of lateral/horizontal bracing? I plan on 3/4" solid walls and an insulated roof (ply, spars + insulation, ply) and a Benroyish type shape or a Jim Dandy shape, therfore the roof will be a solid piece (scarfed ply) from front of trailer to rear of trailer.

Long version:
I have been pouring through these forums off and on for the past couple years, asking a question every now and then. I have learned that if I don't jump in, I many never build one of these things, I could literally plan and design myself into a corner. So my plan is to keep things simple, real simple.

My main use for this will be to pull behind my Jeep to have a "bed on wheels" when I take trips to off-road with my Jeep. I don't expect to pull this thing through he!! and back, but more along the lines of drop it off at the campground, go out and have Jeep fun, then come back to camp - NOT off-road capable. I have been tenting it, so I am pretty used to the simple life when I do these trips. Hence, I've decided that I don't want to build a hatch for a kitchen - at least not on this one. I am fine with setting up my kitchen on a portable table and using a cooler (or maybe someday adding a small fridge to the mix some day).

What I am thinking is no hatch, no kitchen. Mattress (designing around a queen size to fit my height and allow for 2 kids) would go all the way to the back of the camper and would have some cabinets up front and some empty floor space for storage (or potentially another kid). Planning on doing a 5' wide (inside) x 10' long. I would have 80" long mattress, ~12" front cabinet depth leaving about 24" floor space for storage room/additional sleeping room.

Planning on solid 3/4" walls, manufactured doors, insulated roof, insulated floor and home build frame of 2x2 tube steel and a torflex axle. Shape is either going to be a Jim Dandy shape or similiar to KCStudly's (if he'll be nice enough to let me borrow his shape) http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=48630

With all this said, Is the lack of galley cabinets going to harm the overall stability of the box since it won't have the diaphragm to stiffen it side to side?

I'm sure there will be a plethora of other questions, but want to make sure my idea isn't fatally flawed before starting.

Craig

[grantstew8]

Hi Craig

There are some nifty designs with a bunk bed where the galley surface would normally go. It would only be 5' wide but if it's for kids it may work well. I'm not sure I'd want one above my head, but not mind over my feet.

I've been blown away by the tear duck, I feel my engineering design is completely over the top in comparison http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=56828&hilit=duct+tape.

In essence if you use something reasonably boxy it will be easier to build, less demanding on both tools and time. I've seen a few folk build a "box" that fits inside a flatbed trailer. It gives the trailer several uses and the structure you're considering should not be too heavy to lift out, so four people could lift it out and not need a forklift or a crane.

You're right, launch into it and get going; it's a great "winter" project.

Good luck!

[DrCrash]

Look in my pictures. My tear/camper whatever it is does not have a hatch / kitchen and has plenty of lateral support. Been 5 years and as strong today as it was when it was new.

[angib]

With all this said, Is the lack of galley cabinets going to harm the overall stability of the box since it won't have the diaphragm to stiffen it side to side?

No, the fixed rear roof skin will provide all the stability that the galley bulkhead provides in other teardrops.

The one thing you lose is the direct support from the frame through the galley bulkhead to the sidewalls - that's no problem if your frame is the same size as the body, but if you were going to overhang the body beyond the frame, you would need another source of strength.

[KennethW]

If you put in the hinge supports in the roof. You can cut the hatch out of sides on the back of the camper and add a wall at a later date. If the change your mine.

[Cdash]

Thanks all. Frame will match the body size, so I'm good there.

More questions to follow, I'm sure.

[RandyG]

You can still get the torsion strength back by the bunk bed being where the galley would be.

[KCStudly]

+1 what Angib said^^. The rigid rear roof structure with curved surface should do it if you aren't overhanging the sides of the frame. If you are overhanging the frame you will want to be sure that the rear sill lands on frame (maybe even add a 1x6 kicker down low in the back if using the Jim Dandy profile). If overhanging the rear of the frame, add some solid side outriggers or use a longer rear xmbr to pick up the bottoms of the walls.

If you like, you could incorporate a shallow arch style gusset in the ceiling and part way down the walls without taking too much head room, ala GPW's foamy concept sketch here:

(this one happens to be a utility trailer slide in, but shows the arch idea well).

If you don't have a galley, you may want to consider some other form of exterior accessible storage, like a side hatch or locker. Lots of people comment about not liking to load potentially dirty items (folding chairs, EZ-Ups, DI's, etc.) in the sleeping area, and also find it inconvenient to have to unload stuff in order to get in. If it is trepidation about hatch construction that is steering you this way, that's understandable, but do consider some nice flat doors for the rear sides and a mini bulkhead ahead of that (basically making a locker where the under galley counter area would have been). The top of this area would make a nice bunk for one of the little ones, especially with TPCE profile where the back curve is high and roomy inside.

This would have the added benefit of putting stored weight rearward. Stored weight rearward allows the axle to be offset to the rear more, which makes room for the main side doors to fit ahead of the fenders w/o pushing the doors too far forward. If the doors are too far forward it isn't as easy to "sit and spin" into bed, an important feature for those of us that don't want to crawl around on our knees... old knees. And if the axle is in the middle to allow for weight forward, then it is hard to fit the doors between the front of the fenders and the front storage area.

You are certainly more than welcome to use my TPCE profile!!! I'm flattered, but be careful what you wish for. The true TPCE profile is based on a floor length of 9 ft 8 and 5/16 inch from front of floor to rear of floor. The actual wall length is longer than that due to the overhanging curve at the back, but IIRC it is not longer than 10 ft overall. The profile sits on top of the floor, which is 1-7/8 inch thick, and the rear profile (my hatch) wraps down and closes against the rear edge of the floor. Also be aware that the exact profile is over 4 ft tall... 1-7/8 floor + 1-1/2 sill + 48 inch side foam (at the highest point of the main arc... actually this dimension is just a hair under the full sheet height to allow a little leeway for trimming) + 3/16 ceiling + 1-1/2 roof foam, so about 53 inches tall... not a standard sheet size... remember, my outer skin is canvas which comes in wide sizes, so I based the inner skin on the 48 inch sheet. Not trying to scare you off, but the foamy method allows a lot of leeway from traditional standards, and I took advantage of this in some ways.

I had originally considered selling complete sets of detailed plans, but since no one has been interested in that, I see no reason why I wouldn't share the profile. After all, it is the details of construction and how everything fits together that was the really involved part to resolve.

If you do use it would you just do your own version of it, or would you want the exact profile? I can provide grid coordinates, and/or arc end points, radii and centroids (although that 520 inch main roof radius might be tricky to layout the center!). In fact, I have drawings of the separate CNC templates that will fit on 4 ft wide sheets. I might even be able to scale the whole thing down to 48 high, without too much trouble, but that would make it a tad shorter lengthwise, too.

Let me know what you want, and I will do what I can do to help.

I might even be able to get the CNC program if Rover Mike still has it and I ask nicely; would be nice if he could fix the inverted top curves on the front and rear sections.

[ocasioc25]

Hi Craig,
I just put up my walls on my trailer and what I did is very easy. I build the frame on the trailer and then I used a router to cut off the sides where the plywood would sit. Then I used a 1x4 screwed to the panel and the 1x4 has pocket holes for screws going in to the frame. Kreg pocket hole jig is a very good investment and I just started to use it on this build. I used 2.5" screws that go in to the frame through the 1x4. I thought they would be too long or come out the sides and it worked. I placed glue and then screwed everything in and those walls are real sturdy. I mean I can grab the wall and pull on it and they don't budge. Check out some of the pics I posted just before I installed the walls. I need to post the pics with the walls already installed. I might have overkilled it by placing the screws real close, bout 6 " apart.

Good luck

Carlos

[Cdash]

Thanks guys! Wanted to make sure I wasn't starting out with a fatal flaw before I even started. I'm probably going to get started right after Halloween, since kids activities die off a bit after that.

Frame size will match body size - I plan on getting the sides cut out, then build the frame. That way, I'll have the profile adjustments taken care of and the frame and base will be what I need for the profile. Will make the frame out of the thinnest 2x2 tubing I can get a hold of at a reasonable price.

Second question - Is there anything wrong with letting the roof sheeting overhang the walls (say 3/4" or so) to avoid using a corner molding? Then the inside corner between the wall and the roof panel underside can be sealed with caulk.

KCStudly - I was set on a Jim Dandy profile until I saw yours. When I saw that shape, I thought it was a nice eye catching shape (at least for me and you). It maximizes interior room height wise. It is possible that I may have seen the picture of your profile planning with the ordinates and used that to trace in CAD and scale to come up with a very similar shape that fits to a 4x10 sheet of plywood. At this point I have only played with it, so I can't say that I "used" it yet. I appreciate your offer for more info on it, but I think I am good with what I have been playing with.

Carlos - that is exactly how I was thinking that I would attach walls if I went with insulated walls. Even now I waffle back and forth between thin paneling/studs & foam/thin paneling vs 3/4" solid walls. I want the insulated walls for lighter weight, but the 3/4" for build simplicity. I'll probably know the direction right after I buy the materials....

As to my use of this, while it is similar to what most of you see, use and build, I have different expectations for it. I appreciate the comments from all of you about storage and more doors to get stuff in and store separately. Maybe I am fooling myself, but I plan to use a truck tool chest (50" wide) to place on the tongue for the dirty stuff, and my goal is to have storage space between the bed and the front. I realize this will translate to tongue weight, I am still grappling with that and if it will be reasonable. I do expect to crawl into bed as opposed to the sit and twist. I don't expect that to be a problem, but who knows, maybe you all will be right and I'll be adjusting things.

Are the RV style storage doors any good? I know they seem to be pretty thin. I had several times thought that placing a wide one of those in the rear would be a good idea. Wasn't sure if they can be added and leak free.

Thanks all!!

[KCStudly]

I don't think the commercial cargo doors would be any more of a problem to seal than commercial entry doors, but if you are planning to use them as entry doors, IMO, it isn't worth the cost savings; you will need to solve the issue of no windows and no interior latch handle.

If your goal is simple and fast, I would use the plywood walls (perhaps 1/2 or 5/8 thick with minimal stick frame to stiffen door area and joints... also making the addition of insulation and thin skin on the inside possible later if you find the need); make very simple plywood cargo doors with similar perimeter 1x1 perimeter frames, inexpensive cam latches and foam seals; and buy ready made TD doors.

If you are going to the trouble of building your own custom trailer, you are already into the deep end of this project and some simple carpentry will not be such a big deal.

I'm happy with my home built doors (so far), but they have been time consuming and the window$, latche$ and hinge$ add up fast if you are not patient and thrifty, so the cost of ready made is not as bad as you might think on first look.

I guess it depends on where you are and whether there are good RV salvage yards close by where deals can be found (once you start spending time searching CL and the bay, and/or paying for shipping, it is either not timely or isn't really all that thrifty, IMO).

[Cdash]

I am using manufactured entry doors, likely the Frankbear ones. Don't want to get bogged down in door construction (or repeated banging head into the wall trying to make them work and not leak).

Was thinking the RV baggage door just as an access point if I do rear storage, rather than front. There are a couple places within a few hours that I can get stuff from.

[Forrest747]

Create a lower and upper cargo area accessed from the rear.

[Chuckles]

What I am thinking is no hatch, no kitchen. Mattress (designing around a queen size to fit my height and allow for 2 kids) would go all the way to the back of the camper and would have some cabinets up front and some empty floor space for storage (or potentially another kid). Planning on doing a 5' wide (inside) x 10' long. I would have 80" long mattress, ~12" front cabinet depth leaving about 24" floor space for storage room/additional sleeping room.

Dimension-wise it sounds a lot like the one I'm building. I have a queen mattress, two feet of empty floor space, and interior storage front and rear. I do have an exterior galley as well.

If you put the bed to the front, empty floor space by the door then drop the floor to make a foot-well you can sit on the bed and access the interior storage right in front of you... raise the roof a little and you have a slouchy. I love being able to get in with muddy shoes on and take them off before crawling into bed. Getting dressed while sitting on the end of the bed and being able to almost stand straight up to put your pants on is a huge feature of the camper. My design is 13 feet long but without the exterior galley and minus the front storage it could easily be shrunk to 10 feet.

If you keep it longer you could have a cross ways bunk in the upper rear and storage underneath!

Enjoy your build,

Chuck