"TrailTop" modular trailer building components

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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby Watercamper » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:59 am

You might want to investigate the various lift mechanisms used in the tent trailer industry. They are quite interesting. You should also check out the Sportsmobile and GTRV sites to see what they are doing to raise the van roofs. They have both manual and powered lifts and are very similar to what you want to do.

I've been thinking for years of basically doing what your left photo shows but on top of a simple utility trailer. My design (in my brain) had an advantage - there are 4 corner supports with a length of 3.5 ft. Theses supports consist of a square tube in a square tube thereby allowing me to raise the roof and pin it in its elevated position. My thoughts were to KEEP IT SIMPLE - If the roof weight is low enough the user could supply the power to raise and lower. While I see that you can't have long corner supports, I'm throwing out my idea only to help spark other ideas.

I like the idea of using your components to build a roof for someone's utility trailer. They could then use a pattern to sew the walls/windows/doors/screens and attach this unit to a purchased utility trailer and voila - instant ultralight tent trailer.

Rather than canvas, please investigate some of the lighter materials. It seems that you want that industrial sewing machine and I can't argue with tool lust - we all have it. But ripstop nylon and silnylon might perform to your expectations at a fraction of the weight; remember, it is on the rooftop and must be lifted. I make almost all of my own backpacking gear. I am on about year 12 for my first silnylon tarp. No signs of degradation. I just finished 2 ultralight hammocks and am currently making hammock underquilts and tarps. I love my thread injector (sewing machine). We manly types must have a manly name for our tools :R
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:12 am

Watercamper wrote:You might want to investigate the various lift mechanisms used in the tent trailer industry. They are quite interesting. You should also check out the Sportsmobile and GTRV sites to see what they are doing to raise the van roofs. They have both manual and powered lifts and are very similar to what you want to do.

I've been thinking for years of basically doing what your left photo shows but on top of a simple utility trailer. My design (in my brain) had an advantage - there are 4 corner supports with a length of 3.5 ft. Theses supports consist of a square tube in a square tube thereby allowing me to raise the roof and pin it in its elevated position. My thoughts were to KEEP IT SIMPLE - If the roof weight is low enough the user could supply the power to raise and lower. While I see that you can't have long corner supports, I'm throwing out my idea only to help spark other ideas.

I like the idea of using your components to build a roof for someone's utility trailer. They could then use a pattern to sew the walls/windows/doors/screens and attach this unit to a purchased utility trailer and voila - instant ultralight tent trailer.

Rather than canvas, please investigate some of the lighter materials. It seems that you want that industrial sewing machine and I can't argue with tool lust - we all have it. But ripstop nylon and silnylon might perform to your expectations at a fraction of the weight; remember, it is on the rooftop and must be lifted. I make almost all of my own backpacking gear. I am on about year 12 for my first silnylon tarp. No signs of degradation. I just finished 2 ultralight hammocks and am currently making hammock underquilts and tarps. I love my thread injector (sewing machine). We manly types must have a manly name for our tools :R


Good input, thanks.

Where I used the word canvas, I probably should have used the work "fabric". I wasn't meaning canvas literally, I was thinking of other fabrics, but I made a poor choice of words.

I have done one "fabric" project already; I did the design but I didn't do the sewing myself. The project turned out to be very successful, so I got interested in learning sewing myself so I can implement more of my ideas. The project was the roll-up side curtains for my Safari Cab hardtop design. The sides of this hardtop are designed so that the hard sides/glass windows can be swapped out for soft sides that roll up for nice weather and roll down for not-so-nice weather. I've had the roll-up side curtains for three years now, I run them all summer long, both on long interstate trips and on mountain trails and they've worked out great. I think a similar design concept could be applied to an ultralight camper as well as you suggest.

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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby Watercamper » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:49 am

Your photo of Tincup Pass reminded me of Colorado Camper Van, another manufacturer that has rooftop beds and lifts and other interesting products.
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:23 am

Watercamper wrote:Your photo of Tincup Pass reminded me of Colorado Camper Van, another manufacturer that has rooftop beds and lifts and other interesting products.

I've driven that Jeep over many of the passes in the Colorado Rockies - Tincup, Mosquito, Engineer, Cumberland, Boreas, Old Monarch, Ophir, Imogene, Cinnamon, etc.... and many more passes that even have actual roads over them :).

Just checked out the Colorado Camper Van website, thanks for the link... their "Top Bunk" product is a nice example of a hinged clamshell; wouldn't be too hard to do that one with TrailTop parts, just have to get that sewing machine...
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:01 am

Today I'll finish up the woodworking on the mold master for the teardrop hatch ribs:

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The rib master might look wide, but it's designed to make two ribs at the same time. After it's taken out of the mold the part willl be cut down the middle to result in two ribs - a left and a right.

I built a straight section at the bottom of the ribs. That's so multiple styles of galley hatch can be accommodated with the one rib mold.

These ribs will be "cut-to-length" parts, so different hatch sizes/styles can be made using the same basic ribs. In this drawing, the red hatch allows for a 3' front-to-back depth in the galley, and the hatch goes almost to the floor. The green hatch also has 3' galley depth, but only goes down to about 16" above the floor (basically where the top of a Jeep tub would be). And the yellow hatch allows for a 2' depth of galley, and goes to the floor.

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Once the woodworking is finished up, I'll fill and sand this and the 12" radius skin master I made on Monday, and when that's done I'll put a nice finish on them and then they'll both be ready for making molds.
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:14 am

I've been assembling this proof-of-concept teardrop on a Jeep-tub as you know, and that means there are several options for the rear hatch.

On the left, there's a tailgate installed (it's hard to see because it's black), and the hatch only comes down as far as the top of the tailgate. This is a Dinoot Smooth tailgate, which is the same size as a standard Jeep tailgate, but has a smooth exterior so there's no "Jeepness" about it.

On the right, there's no tailgate, and the hatch also fills the tailgate opening.

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I'm not sure which one I'd really prefer on a Jeep-tub teardrop, but if a side-swinging tailgate were installed, it could add utility to the kitchen. For example, something like this tailgate storage compartment could be installed. This one has a locking compartment, and when it's open, the door serves as a small table. The tailgate would open far enough so that it wouldn't get in the way of access to the galley, but close enough that whatever was mounted on it could be part of the galley area. This one's mounted on the tailgate of a Dinoot Compact Jeep-tub trailer:

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The version I have on my Jeep just has a net to keep the cargo in the compartment:

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For the proof-of-concept TrailTop I plan to build the hatch to work with a Jeep-style tailgate.
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby grant whipp » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:00 pm

Hey, Jeff!

If it matters ... ;) ... I agree with your decision to go with the tailgate ... without a side entry door, you'll need to access the inside from the rear, and climbing over anything in the galley area would just be cumbersome and inconvenient. One thing you could consider (if you have any plans to make this function like a teardrop) would be to make the bed fold like a futon, kind of a couch across the front, with some kitchen-like cabinets in the rear corners to compliment whatever could go on the tailgate.

Again, so many possibilities ...! Lookin' great ... :thumbsup: ...!

As always ...

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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:39 pm

grant whipp wrote:Hey, Jeff!

If it matters ... ;) ... I agree with your decision to go with the tailgate ... without a side entry door, you'll need to access the inside from the rear, and climbing over anything in the galley area would just be cumbersome and inconvenient. One thing you could consider (if you have any plans to make this function like a teardrop) would be to make the bed fold like a futon, kind of a couch across the front, with some kitchen-like cabinets in the rear corners to compliment whatever could go on the tailgate.

Again, so many possibilities ...! Lookin' great ... :thumbsup: ...!

As always ...

CHEERS!

Hey Grant,

If I were going to finish this off as an actual official teardrop, I'd do a side door (or doors on both side) and maybe a window like the illustration below, and then I'd do an actual teardrop galley in the back, with a Jeep-tub tailgate and storage/drop-down table on the tailgate as I showed.

Image

But since I'm just doing a proof-of-concept assembly and probably won't actually finish this to the point where it could go on the road, what I'm doing is verifying that all the TrailTop parts assemble and work as designed. I haven't decide how far I'll take the proof-of-concept project; I will definitely get a curved galley hatch built and hinged to prove that... I'm putting a finish on the mold masters for both the hatch ribs and the 12" radius skin section today, so I'll be making those molds very soon. And in the next few days I'm going to pick up two sheets of 1/8" baltic birch for the hatch skin, plus some other materials for it, so stay tuned, lots to come in the next week or so. I think I'll be using a "Better Than Hurricane" hinge for the hatch too :).

And, I have another prototype project I need the black Jeep tub for, so I don't want to cut door holes in it for this project ;).

Cheers...
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:42 pm

Back to the TrailTop roof-top clamshell concept for a moment, another idea for a Jeep-tub trailer would be the same clamshell top piece, the same mechanism as a hinge-up clamshell, and the same fabric sides... a variant of the hinge-up roof-top clamshell idea would be to do the hinge-up directly on a Dinoot trailer tub like this...

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With pretty much the same set of fabric, hardware and TrailTop parts, a DIY kit for either a roof-top clamshell or a Dinoot-tub clamshell could be done, the Dinoot clamshell would just be minus the TrailTop parts for the bottom half of the clamshell.
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:25 pm

Today I finished up the mold masters for the TrailTop 12" radius skin section and the teardrop hatch ribs:

Image

I'll probably make the molds from these on Tuesday, I like to give the epoxy finish 3 days to fully cure before making a mold.
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:37 am

I always like to verify that things are as strong as I thought they would be when I did the design work, so I often do a 225-lb. gorilla test...

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Test passed :).

I'm testing two things in the photo - the strength of the fiberglass parts, and the strength of the bonds between the parts, which were done with automotive body filler.
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby Watercamper » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:01 pm

But - did the gorilla bounce up & down to simulate the g forces encountered off road? :worship:

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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:06 pm

Watercamper wrote:But - did the gorilla bounce up & down to simulate the g forces encountered off road? :worship:

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If I had done that, I'm sure I would have ended up on the workshop floor - check the look on my face, does it look like I'm feeling well balanced on these freestanding frames? :shock:
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby jscherb » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:09 pm

You may have noticed the side hatch that's been in some of the photos of the proof-of-concept project lately. I had to take a road trip about 10 days ago and the route took me past Elkhart, Indiana, so I got off the interstate to visit one of the several RV surplus stores there. I picked up a few interesting things, including that hatch, it's a perfect size for the side of a Dinoot. I don't know what I'm going to do with this hatch (if anything), but for $25, I couldn't pass it up.

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I've drawn hatches like this in many of my concepts in this thread and the Jeep-tub trailer thread over the past year, here's just one example...

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Or for pull-out kitchens:

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The hatch could be mounted hinge up, and with a prop-rod, it could serve as a small table:

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Or mounted hinge down, it would be great for a slide-out kitchen.

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It could look something like this:

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Could do just a storage drawer too:

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Putting something in a drawer like this probably would be best done with a raised sleeping platform; when slid in the kitchen would store under the bed, so perhaps not a teardrop where the bed would be on the floor but perhaps a rear-door style like the one below where a raised bed would make sense and a rear galley wouldn't be an option.

Image
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Re: "TrailTop" modular trailer building components

Postby Martiangod » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:27 pm

You last animation brings up something I've thought may be a good option, the 3 way corner
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