Help! Reviving a neglected/unfinished teardrop...

[mikesova]

Hello everybody. I thought it best to come to the experts. I'm going on a trip out west in a few weeks and I've been looking for a trailer to take with us (my wife and I). We are wanting to use it to sleep in as opposed to staying at a hotel while driving out and back.

I am a member of a 4x4 site and was asking some questions about pulling trailers with jeeps (We have a newly acquired Jeep LJ Wrangler) and I was offered a teardrop project for a seemingly good price.

The builder readily admits he built it under a time crunch to use on a trip of his own, in 2011. He really over built the frame, axles, wheels, etc. for use offroad. The cabin is made of plywood floor and sides with masonite for the covering. He put it together and painted it with epoxy paint. He used it on his trip and then it sounds like it just sat around in his yard.

Here's what it looked like new:












Here's what it looks like now:









http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt303/oz97tj/Teardrop%20build%202011/20140601_182043_zpsqs9psk1o.jpg













So the biggest issue is the masonite separating from the plywood. He said the roof vent was partially open and that could have caused some of the water coming in. Or possibly the huge cracks between the masonite / plywood. Also the masonite covering the galley area has a couple holes in it from a mishap with the chunks of prop wood he was using.

Assuming that the masonite or the plywood isn't too far gone, would it make sense to skin over top of it with aluminum and silicone/screw it down or would it be better to remove the existing masonite and replace?

Any glaring issues that I'm not seeing? The inside plywood definitely needs to be finished to help protect it against moisture. I would also like to make some improvements as well, like cupboards, 12v outlets, etc. but my main concern is making it water tight/structurally sound first.

Any advice is completely welcomed!

THANK YOU!

[48Rob]

Hi,

Quite a project you have there!

The inside plywood definitely needs to be finished to help protect it against moisture.

First, I'd like to gently correct what seems to be a misconception.
Finishing the interior will make it look nicer, and correctly finishing it will make it more water resistant, but finishing the interior will not stop water that is coming from the outside from ruining the inside, the only solution to that is to seal the holes on the outside.

From your photos, it appears the plywood is delaminating, and the masonite is weak at best.
Skinning with aluminum, and aluminum trim, if done correctly will prevent further damage.
Silicone used to be the best available sealant, but has been brushed aside by polyurethane sealants.

It really depends on the level of "nice" you are willing to live with.
If you got it cheap and are okay with "so-so" then skinning it and just using it as is may be an inexpensive alternative to hotels.
If you are the type to keep tinkering until "it is perfect" then you'll never be happy until you tear it down to the ground and start over.

Rob

[Campin' Texan]

There looks like there's quite a bit of water damage, especially around the vent. The plywood looks like it's got some damaged walls and delamination in places. There's obviously some sealing issues on the hatch. Who knows what you would find under the masonite. Water has gotten in those big cracks and been trapped there. Personally, I wouldn't trust any of the wood, especially if I didn't build it and know what's going on.
I would tear it apart and start from scratch. It looks like all the fixtures are good. You've got the frame, wheels, lights, fan, latches, and good doors. I'd start over before putting money into repairs.

[mikesova]

Hi,

Quite a project you have there!

The inside plywood definitely needs to be finished to help protect it against moisture.

First, I'd like to gently correct what seems to be a misconception.
Finishing the interior will make it look nicer, and correctly finishing it will make it more water resistant, but finishing the interior will not stop water that is coming from the outside from ruining the inside, the only solution to that is to seal the holes on the outside.

From your photos, it appears the plywood is delaminating, and the masonite is weak at best.
Skinning with aluminum, and aluminum trim, if done correctly will prevent further damage.
Silicone used to be the best available sealant, but has been brushed aside by polyurethane sealants.

It really depends on the level of "nice" you are willing to live with.
If you got it cheap and are okay with "so-so" then skinning it and just using it as is may be an inexpensive alternative to hotels.
If you are the type to keep tinkering until "it is perfect" then you'll never be happy until you tear it down to the ground and start over.

Rob

I understand that finishing the interior wood won't stop exterior leaks, but it will help protect it from typical camping conditions, condensation, etc.

Where does it look like the plywood is de-laminating? I haven't bought it and I haven't seen it in person yet. It would be possible for me to pick it up this weekend, though.

I definitely want to improve it beyond skinning it with aluminum. If the plywood is in good condition (other than water stains) I am ok with replacing the masonite and adding insulation between the roof and ceiling. Upon further thought, that would probably make the most sense since there has obviously been some leaks up there.

At the moment, I'm most interested in getting it leak proof and semi-nice for a trip on June 22. The nicer customization could come after that trip.

[mikesova]

I emailed to ask if any of the plywood was de-laminating and this is the response I got:

"No. The plywood is all solid. The only damage is the masonite fiber paneling has gotten wet causing the swelling you saw in the photos.

If it matters, the plywood used was a cabinet grade 3/4 inch 4 by 10 ft. The finished side is facing to the interior as it would give a great smooth finish painted or stained. The exterior shows the wood grain more than I anticipated it would through the epoxy. If a guy was ambitious, you could use some filler and sand the sides smooth when it was reskinned. Then epoxy over the whole thing creating a smooth fiberglass like finish. Another option would be to glue some of the masonite paneling over the sides and then re-epoxy. That would also give the same effect.

The plan was to have a very smooth exterior but between a short time frame and it being my first time using the epoxy and fighting that learning curve I didnt get it how I wanted. With that said, the epoxy isnt hard to work with once you figure it out. Its the same stuff used for wooden boats and whatnot and can be built up into thick very durable water tight coatings that look great. I just didnt get there yet."

[Campin' Texan]

This looks like the edge of the side wall is delaminating.




This looks like a lot of water damage




With the big cracks letting water get to the wood, and all the water around the fan, there's no way I'd call that plywood "solid". Unless the pics are just making it look really bad, I think it's got a big head start on rotting. The grain showing up could be an indication that the plywood has gotten wet and as a result the grain raised up. Cabinet grade plywood isn't made to be used outside and has to be properly protected if used in an exterior application.
What is he asking for it? It would have to be a really good deal for me to buy.

[48Rob]

I understand that finishing the interior wood won't stop exterior leaks, but it will help protect it from typical camping conditions, condensation, etc.

Where does it look like the plywood is de-laminating? I haven't bought it and I haven't seen it in person yet. It would be possible for me to pick it up this weekend, though.

I definitely want to improve it beyond skinning it with aluminum. If the plywood is in good condition (other than water stains) I am ok with replacing the masonite and adding insulation between the roof and ceiling. Upon further thought, that would probably make the most sense since there has obviously been some leaks up there.

At the moment, I'm most interested in getting it leak proof and semi-nice for a trip on June 22. The nicer customization could come after that trip.

Hi,

As pointed out by the other poster, this appears to be delamination on the sidewall;


It is very likely, probable in fact, that mold is present in the ceiling cavity, and in/on the wood in other areas.

Yes you are correct, sealing the interior will help prevent damage from condensation.
Adding insulation and another layer (ceiling) will help but much care needs to be given to keeping moisture from reaching that new cavity and condensating on the underside of the roof, and then spoiling everything inside the cavity.
Sometimes interior moisture can be as big an issue as outside moisture coming in.

I thought you already owned it...
Now that I know you don't, I must advise that you pass on the purchase.
If you really want a major project, and don't mind sinking a lot of money into something that is a pretty low (quality) level of home built, so be it.
I believe you would be better off renting a trailer, or staying in a motel for your trip, then building or buying a good quality trailer.
What you are looking at, isn't.

Two weeks to "fix" this trailer before your trip is unrealistic, in my opinion, and I fix things for a living, usually on a very tight schedule.

Sorry, not trying to ruin your dream, just being as honest as I can.

Rob

[bobhenry]

Can I wade in with a totally different tact.

The shell is done the electric is done the only inherited problem appears that mother nature was simply underestimated.
If it were my project I would pull the roof down into place using glues and screws and then liberally coat the entire exterior with the really good heavy mobile home roof coat." Polar seal" or "Kool seal" come to mind. This heavy bodied elastopolimer coating are tinted white and will also work well as an interior coating . It will fill voids and skin over well and it dries in 4 - 5 hours so multiple coats are possible at one setting. Now that the roof is a mess with screws and pock marks I would apply Peel and Seal a heavy rubberized membrane used to seal gutter lines on homes to avoid ice dam leaks. Then cover with an aluminum or frp as the final exterior surface. This can be done on the sides as well by simply trapping the side material behind door and window trim.

[mikesova]

Rob, to answer a previous question, the asking price right now is 1200. It it basically a new trailer frame and axle, newer jeep alloy wheels, newer 31" BFg at's, doors, vent, the leakproof galley hinge, etc.

He is saying the plywood is not delaminated and it's just the rough side of the plywood. Assuming this is the case and I check it out before I buy it) Would it really be a big deal to pull the roof and galley skin, check for mold, insulate, replace the Masonite if necessary and skin it ?

[jstrubberg]

Looks like a good frame and probably some useful fixtures to me, but the seller either isn't being straight with you or just doesn't know what he is talking about. With the level of water stain on the inside or the trailer, he DOES have delamination. There's no seal at all on any of the corners from what I can see.

My best guess without walking around the trailer would be that you are looking at replacing the ply, then skinning.

[Mojave Bob]

He is saying the plywood is not delaminated and it's just the rough side of the plywood

"Cabinet grade" plywood doesn't have a rough side. This looks like standard 7-ply plywood to me, and it sure looks like it is delaminating at the edges. It certainly is not anywhere close to the grade of plywood that I would use in my cabinet work.

It looks like it has leaked from virtually every seam, and it is pretty inconceivable that it doesn't have some rot. In one picture, it sure looks like there is some mold bloom.

There are easily $1000 worth of parts here, so it may make a good buy to start a total rebuild. But, as it sits now, you could definitely make it watertight and usable for a few years, but for all that expense and effort, you will always have a cobbled-together low-quality build. Is that what you want?

As for using it for a trip in a few weeks, ... A teardrop is a very small, enclosed air space in which you will spend 1/3 of your total time for the duration of your trip. That is a lot of time to breath in the air, and whether it be moldy air, or air laced with chemical residues from trying to kill the mold, I value my health too highly.

[mikesova]

I've always wanted one, but the cost of them has been prohibitive. This seemed like a decent start, having the bare bones there and modifying to suite our taste. I'm not a major woodworker, but i could do the small things with the main body already put together.

I don't really NEED all the goodies right now. I just want a place for my wife and I to sleep a few nights when we're traveling out west and traveling back home.

[absolutsnwbrdr]

I have to agree with Rob. You don't know how far and how deep the damage goes until you have it apart. By the time you get it apart, you're going to have to rebuild anyway. All the exterior joints appear to be separating at their seams and the whole roof/ceiling looks completely shot. Masonite is a horrible choice for a camper building material because of all the [list=][/list]moisture in the air and falling from the sky. I'd be pretty weary of mold and mildew. Its not impossible to get rid of, but you're going to spend more time and energy trying to battle it than you would just starting over.

Thats not cabinet grade ply. Looks to be AC plywood at best. Adding cabinets and cupboards will require solid wood to attach to. Hopefully the sides are not too far gone to do so. The damage looks deep.

If the frame, axle, tires, and doors all look good, then $1000 may not be too unreasonable. Then you at least have the parts when you decide to put a lot more time into it.

[Campin' Texan]

$1000 isn't too bad for what's there. The frame, wheels, doors, and hinge are worth well over $1000. You could put the time and money to fix the outside issues with the leaking and make the outside look pretty, but you would still have the problems with the wood that's gotten wet. That plywood isn't going to last. Without a good foundation you would be doing major repairs, or a total rebuild, in a short time. If you were to buy this and put the time into rebuilding it correctly, not just cosmetic fixes, you could have a nice trailer. It looks like the builder didn't put the time and money into doing it correctly, and is now left with that. Don't make the same mistakes he did.

[mallymal]

I'm a relative noob here, so take this with a pinch of salt. But it looks to me whatever you do to tidy up the finish of the exterior, the big issue is that wherever you have a joint between a sidewall and a roof, you need a proper seal on that corner ... Whether it's wood trim, ally trim, epoxy and glassfibre tissue, you need something....

Just screwing the joints up and wacking more paint on might give you temporary respite, but I think sooner rather than later, you'll get the same old probs.

It's a shame, it looks like a really sound start... Good trailer, good profile, good frame, but it think the builder's rush to finish it has let him down.

I would grab it at the price, but I don't think you'll turn it round fast for proper watertight camping....