CNC Build: The Bed and Breakfast at 4 years and 40,000 miles

[capnTelescope]

Nice cooler!

Thanks. It was close to Christmas when I bought it. Must have been feeling merry. They're here in Austin. Coulda gotten an Igloo big enough for the whole underneath for the same bucks. The Igloos this size don't have a drain! I just hate it when the coffee cake gets all soggy in the ice melt.

Any reason you didn't attach the glide directly to the base of the wall (or a shim for clearance)? Seems to me there is already adequate wood there, so why add any more than necessary?

That's what I thought, too. And I would have been wrong. There's stuff to clear at the end of the tear. A shim woulda been a 2x4+. Be sure to layout and measure yours before you cut wood! Some of that space by the wall should be usable.

[wagondude]

Another option would be to use under mount slides and get rid of the side supports all together. That would gain you both 2by's in space back. Really like watching this build.

[KCStudly]

The difference is probably that I have eliminated the face frame around my cooler bay so that I can keep my counter top that much lower (I have a little higher trailer frame than some due to the large tires), and save that little bit of depth in the galley (the cooler tray will be flush to the face frame, not behind it. Just one rail under the counter edge and the face frame ends flush with the cooler bay. It means that it won't be practical to add a surface mount door to the cooler bay, but I'm okay with that.

Nothing wrong with using a prototype (or mock-up) to figure out what you really want!

[RandyG]

Would it help if you did without the tray but still used the frame of the tray to hold it, put the frame where the cooler has that lip and it falls in and rests on that lip. Not sure if it helps anything but makes it harder to lift a full cooler into place, just another way of looking at it.

[capnTelescope]

Another option would be to use under mount slides and get rid of the side supports all together.

Undermount slides would work. It also wouldn't be the first time I bought something for this build that I couldn't use. (referring to the slides I already own.) This tray isn't all that bad, but undermounts might be just the ticket for the other side of the galley. Hold that thought. I'll give more details on that in the next post.

I checked Rockler for undermounts, but they didn't have 28". Do you or anyone else reading this know a source for 28" Over Travel Undermount slides? (Not asking for much, an I?) It would be much appreciated.

Really like watching this build.

Thank you, WagonDude. I really like it that you really like it.

Nothing wrong with using a prototype (or mock-up) to figure out what you really want!

Sometimes it's just plain wrong to not.

Would it help...?

Save that thought for the next post, coming real soon. I think I get what you mean. It might help on the other side of the galley.

Thank y'all for chiming in! Good feedback!

[aggie79]

Cap'n,
I've been at a lake house all weekend drinking beer with some of the guys I've went to A&M with so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. You may be able to use metal angle brackets to mount your slides to the floor. You had mentioned you were going to use a face frame so I assume you were thinking doors/drawers also. What if you "split" the face frame in two sections. The portion left of the cooler would remain fixed as conventionally installed. The two rails and one style could be added to the false front of the cooler door. When closed it would difficult to see that the face frame was in two pieces.
Take care,
Tom

[capnTelescope]

I started the day off by getting rid of yesterday's 2-by's. Left a divot or two on the floor, but they won't be visible to the casual observer. Here's how the cooler slide looks now:

I think this one's a keeper.

I've also got an idea how to get more space at the top [of the cooler]

I was going to glue a piece of 1/2" insulation board to the floor under the cooler tray, to get a barrier from road heat, and because I could. Then a 1/4" gap to the bottom of the tray. But wait! The tray's bottom is recessed a 1/4" up from the bottom of the sides. So I glued my insulation board up there, kept the quarter inch clearance, and saved the extra quarter. What can I buy with that quarter?


I learned a few things about drawer slides today. You may remember this one:


See the area marked "Clearance," next to "Stile"? That is incorrect. That is not clearance, that is the slide support, and it should be flush with the inside edge of the stile. Clearance is built into the slide, itself. About a 16th. See this:

The yellow arrow points to the itty bitty gap between the upper part of the slide and the slide support. I did not know that existed.

By the time I made this discovery, the TB2 had set up enough that it wasn't going to be worth gaining the quarter inch that was there to be had.

Just as a point of interest, I worked as a contractor at Accuride (drawer slides, not truck wheels) for about 6 months as a data cruncher. I should have taken the time to learn more about the product.

Okay, everyone, POP QUIZ!
This is the left side of the galley, where the oven and stove go. What's wrong with this picture?

I'll save you the suspense. See the slide leaning up against the front of the oven? That's where it would go, if I used the cooler tray design. It will make it very difficult to ever open the oven door. No bueno. I added up all the numbers for height, but it never occurred to me that I should worry about the slide getting in the way.

Well, what if I turn the slides on their sides? Like this:

As you might expect, that isn't real solid. It's like a real springy diving board.

The slide behind the oven could be vertical, and the front horizontal underneath. That would be better, A little bit better, I suspect. So where's that source for undermount slides? Any ideas? Anyone?


I see Tom snuck in here while I was composing.

I've been at a lake house all weekend drinking beer...

Lucky you, I've been outside sweating in the mid-90 heat and humidity.

take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

I need a salt pill.

You may be able to,,, so I assume you... What if you,,,

Yes. I'm not really going to have enough clearance on either end for a full width top rail, so I'll have to do something like you said. I want drawers and a small cupboard in the middle, so I'm going to have to do something along those lines. Thank you for reaffirming my own thoughts.

Thanks to all for stopping by. Stay tuned!

[tony.latham]

"I've been outside sweating in the mid-90 heat and humidity."

I'm starting to understand why you're putting an air conditioner in your tear-box. I'm facing another 74º with 20% humidity and blue sky day. I may sneak out to my 'drop and test the fan for twenty or so minutes this afternoon. Just lay there and make sure the bearings sound okay.

Undermount slides? These look good:http://www.rockler.com/accuridereg-eclipse-3132ec-undermount-slide-slides Their website says they are full extension.

I assume you've considered removing your oven legs to gain a tad bit more room?

You may have this figured out, but here's a couple of shots on how I've locked my sliders in:



The beast is looking great.
Tony

[working on it]

Another option would be to use under mount slides and get rid of the side supports all together.

Undermount slides would work. It also wouldn't be the first time I bought something for this build that I couldn't use. (referring to the slides I already own.) This tray isn't all that bad, but undermounts might be just the ticket for the other side of the galley. Hold that thought. I'll give more details on that in the next post.

I checked Rockler for undermounts, but they didn't have 28". Do you or anyone else reading this know a source for 28" Over Travel Undermount slides? (Not asking for much, an I?) It would be much appreciated.

I used the Blum Tandem undermount slides I bought at Rockler, to re-mount, strengthen, and extend the swivel/slide-out generator mount on my TTT. http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59704. I didn't need more than 21" extension (I previously used spindly, inadequate 16" slides-too short- that failed under the weight), and they did the job. After you posted this, I looked for a 28" undermount slide and couldn't find one, so I thought: "If you have enough vertical clearance, you could make a two-stage slider". My generator mount is two stage (swivel over slider), so why not a short undermount slider on top of a durable/strong long extension "main" slider? It would work, provided you braced it underneath to compensate for the added leverage at full-double extension. My Blum slider is rated for the weight of my generator set-up, and it is solidly mounted-now-, but after my previous accidental de-mounting incident, I added a "redneck-engineering" brace underneath for fail-safe use. With your skills, I'm sure you could make something better.

• Blum Tandem undermount slides
• slide-in weight brace (leftovers re-purposed)

[wagondude]

I'll keep looking for the 28" slides, but you can get 27" or 30" here: http://www.cabinetparts.com/c/drawer-sl ... r%2BSlides . Maybe you can make something work. The hybrid set up that Working on it mentioned could be made to work, but probably would cost space rather than save any. Where there is a will, there is a way and you have the will, so I know you will come up with something.

Edit: There is a 28" listed on that page! http://www.cabinetparts.com/p/accuride- ... AC313228EC Kind of pricey. Might be too light weight for the cooler. I'll keep looking for a heavier model.

[working on it]

I'll keep looking for the 28" slides, but you can get 27" or 30" here: http://www.cabinetparts.com/c/drawer-sl ... r%2BSlides . Maybe you can make something work. The hybrid set up that Working on it mentioned could be made to work, but probably would cost space rather than save any. Where there is a will, there is a way and you have the will, so I know you will come up with something.

Edit: There is a 28" listed on that page! http://www.cabinetparts.com/p/accuride- ... AC313228EC Kind of pricey. Might be too light weight for the cooler. I'll keep looking for a heavier model.

I missed that site...but it should work provided that the cooler is supported as soon as it reaches the extended point of travel. The load rating of 100 lbs is given with an asterisk (*), and states that the 100 lbs rating is at 18". So, an additional support would be a wise precaution for "insurance" at full length extension, IMO.

[capnTelescope]

I assume you've considered removing your oven legs to gain a tad bit more room?

I've got that big sheet of 1/8" aluminum that I'm thinking to use a couple of hunks for bottoms/shelves/whatever. One thing I know about that oven is that it doesn't want a heat sink. I did a test fire a while back, and I think it's better than no oven at all, but I think it might be kinda marginal. I might shorten the feet a little bit.

You may have this figured out, but here's a couple of shots on how I've locked my sliders in:

I hadn't figured it out, but I was aware of the need. Your solution is elegantly simple. Or is it simply elegant? That saves me from sweating a minor detail. Thanks, Tony!

I added a "redneck-engineering" brace underneath

You gave me a great idea there. I'll be putting a 2" hitch receiver on the tail end. The perfect place for a holder-upper.

There is a 28" listed on that page! http://www.cabinetparts.com/p/accuride- ... AC313228EC Kind of pricey.

I'll file this away for Plan D (I'm already up to Plan C) I think I'll try Plan C before I spend the $80.

Speaking of Plan C,

The slide behind the oven could be vertical, and the front horizontal underneath. That would be better...

It would look like this:

Add tray sides on the near side and front of the oven.

By having a (fairly) rigid tray attached to the upright, the back edge of the tray rests on the horizontal near the edge.

This will resist droop towards the right. The upright slide will effectively stop vertical droop on the left. This isn't as rock solid as I'd like, but I'm going to try this first, before I go for the Plan D $80 solution. If Plan C is close, I'll try Plan C.1 with Working On It's brace idea.

This view is looking down over the top of the oven toward the front of the tear, showing the back (forward) edge of the tray.


Side view:


Y'all done good. Everyone can call off the search now. Thank you all.

[RandyG]

It looks pretty close from the pics shown but is there are way to turn the slide upright under the drawer? Not put them on the side of the drawer but into the middle a little. I almost had to do that with my AC unit.

[capnTelescope]

In our last episode, I was faced with the need to overcome the problem of the drawer slide getting in the way of the oven door. The upright + sideways solution appears to hold much promise, and I have been working in that direction. I drew up a plan, cut out some parts, and ... Surprise! I ran into the same problem that has been dogging me since day one. Somewhere in the process, I misinterpreted my drawings, and made some really good looking scrap. Fortunately, I'm working with HD SandePly. So the material is popularly priced, and Ecuador is the place getting deforested. Not that I have anything against Ecuador. It's the American way. Send all the dirty jobs, or the ones having to do with cutting down trees, "over there." They'll do a clean, safe job, and manage their forests better than We ever would. Yeah, right. Out of sight, out of mind. How many of us here are ever going to go to Ecuador to see how clean their air is, or how well (or poorly) they manage their forests? Not me. Nope. No desire. Probably not you either, Dear Reader. In the meantime, they have the jobs, we have the trees to hug. Harrumph.
(/rant)

But I digress. How'd I get off on that tangent anyway? That was totally unplanned. It just flowed. I apologize. No I don't. I'm glad I got it off my chest.

Meanwhile, back at the build...

One of the reasons the first batch of parts turned out wrong was that I did all the table saw work first, then did the CNC work. So I messed up on the CNC. I think if I had turned the parts over on the CNC, they might have come out all right. Or not. This time, I'll be able to mess up on the table saw.

Here's what the new batch looks like:

Forward end, back, aft end, front of stove(in back).

I still have two aluminum shelves to cut. The bottom one for the oven gets some cutouts for ventilation, just like the sides. I'm really glad my machine can cut aluminum, but it is so MESSY. I get aluminum chips everywhere. They even find their way into the house. And they won't leave. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I vacuum, there's still some hiding somewhere in the shop.

Getting the poly applied has been a constant time consumer for me. Since I got the ol' HVLP out of the attic to paint the trailer, I thought I'd try it out with the poly. There was some recent discussion in Lauren's Father-Daughter Build thread about that gave me the courage to try thinning the poly and spraying it. First thing was to clean the gun of all that black trailer paint. Paint thinner was no use, so I tried some stripper. On plastic parts. Worked like a champ. While I was blowing out one of the passages in the gun with compressed air, a big paint booger got loose, and hit me in the belly. It stung. I'm glad I wasn't looking in there to see what's going on. After all this, the spray gun worked like new. Victory!

First victim was the oven-stove pullout which you saw above. This went well, and it's so much faster than brushing. I still had another coat to put on my cabinet faceframes, so they were next. The poly sprayed on the prior coat very nicely, and I declared the face frames finished.

I had to see how it's going to look, so the galley was first.

That was good. I'll probably need to relieve the frames for clearance of the gozunder sliders.

Since that was pretty satisfying, I did the cabin cabinets next:

Close, no cigar.

I cut out notches at the top of the frame for the wiring in the walls to go through. I just didn't make them quite big enough:


Easy table saw fix. With this minor exception, everything has been fitting together nicely (knock on wood).

About this time, Bunny Rab came by to inspect progress and pose for the 'razzi.

That would make this the first nature photo taken from the Tear.

Thanks for stopping by!

[wagondude]

How many of us here are ever going to go to Ecuador to see how clean their air is, or how well (or poorly) they manage their forests? Not me. Nope. No desire. Probably not you either, Dear Reader. In the meantime, they have the jobs, we have the trees to hug. Harrumph.
(/rant)

Funny story: I was just looking into a possible future cruise to the Galapagos Islands. Guess where you have to go to get on the ship.