The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Sheddie » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:33 pm

dales133 wrote:Sounds like your mum enjoyed her trip here despite all the car issues

Here =NZ forget where I am sometimes!

That's an easy mistake for you to make Dale. After all, Australia is New Zealands biggest off shore island. North Island, South Island and West Island.
KCStudly wrote:I would love to go back someday. On the other hand, for every place that I have been, there are so many more that I haven't, so when deciding to invest the time and resources the wife and I usually try to pick someplace new to see. If time and budget were no issue, I might be there right now!

Time and budget :cry: We keep saying "if we won LOTTO". One of the things high on the list would be to load up the TD and come visit all you guys, touring from TD gathering to TD gathering all across your countries. Towing it with a classic car of course. :vroom:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:46 am

Just sayin’ ... when I win the Lotto :roll: , I’m booking a trip to NZ to do a little landscape Painting ... BEAUTIFUL!!! :thumbsup: 8)
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Defib » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:51 am

I just finished this incredible build thread and am finally caught up. KC your craftsmanship and attention to detail is incredible. It is amazing to see what you are making. :thumbsup:

Two things I would like to add; One-I hope this is your year to get to poet creek in it!

And two- some info that may or may not be useful for everyone here.

WW wrote (some time ago)"The worst part is that nothing lifts blood out of wood grain :lol:"
Back in the day we used marine grade plywood as backboards on the ambulance and the edge poly would wear away so blood would end up in the wood. We used 3% (household strength) hydrogen peroxide to "boil" the blood out of the wood before resealing it. This may or may not work with stained wood but might save a light colored piece from the scrap pile.

Thanks again for the um documentary! :D
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:48 pm

Thanks for the great feedback, Defib. Welcome to my madness and to TNTTT. :thumbsup:

Sheddie, If you ever get the chance to plan that trip, stick a pin in the northeast part of your US map. We get a lot of "looky-loos" here in the fall due to the trees changing colors and it is a nice time to visit when they are pressing cider (Clyde's Cider Mill).

Geep, you ought to make that trip... when you do hit the lotto. :thumbsup:

Okay, the weather has been warmer the last couple of days, so I need to go load pics and get caught up. Back after super.
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wolffarmer » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:21 pm

A trip to NZ is #2 on my bucket list. #1 is winning the lottery.

I have wanted to visit NZ for about ten years now. Got the passion when I found a web sight of houses for sale in NZ. You people seem to have an abundance of unique cute houses.

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby dales133 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:13 am

Unique cute very expensive houses
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:26 am

dales133 wrote:Unique cute very expensive houses

??? :thinking:
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:48 am

Like I said, Wednesday was decent weather, but I was late and beat.

Yesterday was even warmer, although damp, I was rested and had a relatively easy day at work, so I got right out to Mecca and jumped onto gluing the 1st layer of roof foam. I thought about trying to do both layers in one glue up, so that I could just screw temporary battens down into the spars to clamp the foam in place; but then I realized that the first layer on the curb side had to go down first so that I could train the wires for the roof vent fan and ceiling outlet before putting the top layer on.

Anyway, I had planned to use TB2 for the foam to wood, but for some reason I grabbed the PL instead. With the curve of the roof and the unkerfed foam I think this worked out better. The PL has a lot of initial grab compared to the TB2. The technique that I used was to run a bead from the middle into the corners of the spars out to about 8 inches from the edge of the roof (to keep me from leaning into it with my shirt until I got further out), then a zig-zag bead down the middle. I used my credit card notched spreader to drag the corner bead up the sides of the spars about 3/4 inch, or so, and then on edge to squeegee the adhesive out making sure every bit of wood had coverage. Then I used the notched end to drag the excess toward the edge and used that to complete the rest. I had my foam blotter/cutting board set up with some plastic coated freezer paper and I used that as a cleaning station with damped rag to quickly clean the mess off of the spreader and my gloves (otherwise the spreader would be hardened up when I went to use it again), then I could slip the panel in and press it into place without making a big mess. Used a stick and more rags to clean up any excess before moving on to the next panel. Thing is, I only had 3/4 of a tube of adhesive (thought I had a second tube) so I only got the first three panels in.

Here you can see the rear most curb side panel in with a can of mineral spirits as a gravity clamp, and the next bay with the glue spread out.
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… and with the second panel in.
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… and the one with the fan wires threaded thru it.
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Now the PL Premium (PLP) says it is not for use with polystyrene tub surrounds. My test didn’t show any short term problems and fair adhesion, but I decided to try the PL300 (specifically for use with polystyrene) and picked up several tubes on the way today (also got a couple of PLP’s just in case). I ended up using the PL300 for the rest of the top section of the roof and will probably continue using it. It doesn’t spread as easily as the PLP, it has a different odor, and a shorter working time (…unspecified, but I didn’t have any troubles, other than spending my first notch trowel), but it is water cleanup. It does say not to use on wet surfaces, so it cannot be accelerated with dampness, like the PLP, but it is less expensive and it gives me better peace of mind using the properly engineered product. The instructions on the tube are for wall hanging foam slabs. Says to run 1/4 inch beads vertically every 10 inches and then to press the board into the beads immediately and hold for 24 hrs. To me that just wouldn’t give the full benefit of the water resistance or shear strength, so I smeared and spread it completely; can’t report any problems.

Once I had the curb side all laid in I went to the street side. The technique was the same but I had to remember to add the little center filler pieces to make up for the short panels on the first layer. I am thoroughly pleased with the result.
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Here’s a look at where the ceiling panel splice backer is overlapped by the foam. I used a stick to scrape out the squeeze out, not (just) because I am anal, but because I didn’t want any cling-on’s to interfere with a good spray foam fill later on. Actually, I am considering filling the gap between roof and wall with sealer (… or more PL300 after experimenting) instead of GS.
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Here are a couple of longer shots looking down the side wall, first street side then curb. You can kind of see how the foam hangs over the wall enough to trim/sand back flush, and how the panels set in and follow the curve of the roof.
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Before I can run the ceiling outlet wires I need to get the first layer of foam onto the front radius. One of the issues I was having with the dry fit on the kerfed piece was spring back. I could hold the base at the top of the locker and rock guard blocking, but when I tried to bend the piece over it would bow out at the top of the vertical wall, and straps would create buckles and waves because of the point loading. You may recall that I tried blocks and temporary backers, but these were awkward and I ended up dropping pipe clamps on the door sills making dents that will need to be filled with epoxy. This doesn’t really show what I’m talking about, but it gives you an idea of the spring in the kerfed piece; the blue tape wouldn’t hold it.
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There was a post linking to a guy that used stretchers to free form bend foam without kerfs, and that gave men the idea of using the same technique to form this foam tightly to my front “form”. I first thought that I would use the bed sheets that I have been using as dust covers, but then I was concerned that if the linen got stuck in any squeeze out it might be hell to get it unstuck. What to use, what to use? Well, I have this big roll of rosin paper that was cheap enough; and I know that if it gets wet it more or less dissolves (so that would make it easy to remove, just get it wet), but would it be strong enough? Well if I double it up it should be. So I laid a piece out, doubled it back on itself, and (after this pic was taken) cut it to a width that was slightly narrower than the foam half panel. (In hindsight, the poly sheet material I used for the drape walls and vacuum bag would have also been a good choice.)
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Then I stapled the edges to the backs of some 1x’s and rolled the edge to crease and wrap it (so that it doesn’t just pull out of the staples). The longer one at the bottom is the poplar stick I have been using as a temporary hatch prop and is long enough to span across the front sticking out on either side, while the upper one, in my hand is shorter; I’ll do one side at a time.
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Here it is again from the street side.
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To pull the bottom stretcher in and down w/o dropping clamps or putting extra screw holes in, I rigged up this paracord clamp. The spring clamp kept the cord away from the side wall during setup, and the block hooked under the floor at the bottom keeps the cord from digging in where it turns under to anchor on the build cradle.
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Underneath the floor you can see the block again and the tourniquet tensioner setup. I bound the cord to a hole saw plug screwed to the cradle with a deck screw, doubled the cord back in a loop, tied a bowline knot (that won’t slip), and used a scrap of maple as a winder.
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At the top I just used a couple of adjustable screw clamps hooked on to a spar. It hardly takes any tension to draw it tight because it is covering such a wide even area, so I don’t need to worry about twisting the spar.
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Because of the axe head blocking I had to stuff some scrap foam above and below it to even the tension out, but it works pretty good, applies broad even pressure, and is much easier to handle and get into place than the other methods I tried.
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So this curvy stuff at the front was all just a dry run for now, but I am looking forward to using it for the glue up tomorrow.
Last edited by KCStudly on Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby felixx » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:30 am

Nice innovation!
I love the tourniquet tensioner
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby dales133 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:07 am

Was commenting on wolf hammers post ..:)
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby dales133 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:20 am

Very nice work too.
I've been fitting and belt sanding foam myself today, not the most fun I've ever had
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:02 am

Foam !!! :thumbsup: 8) :applause:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wobbly Wheels » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:10 am

I like the paper stretcher idea.
Rosin paper is the same as kraft paper, yeah ?

It won't be long before you're smelling (like) camp fire in the Express. :thumbsup:

Defib wrote:...hydrogen peroxide to "boil" the blood out of the wood...

Great idea - hadn't heard of that one. I'm going to keep that one in mind, but I'm in no hurry to 'create' a test piece :lol:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby OP827 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:50 am

KC, I enjoy reading your build thread for inventive thinking, it is outside the box, especially this use of paper, not straps or other traditional tools. :thumbsup:

Just some side viewer questions: what glue are you going to use and will it squeeze somehow or drip and potentially soften or weaken the paper during glueup and clamping? You mentioned low tension that is not going to rip apart the spar that you use as a clamp anchor; is that going to be enough to have a good glueup (as they say "squeeze out")?

I myself used scotch packing tape to enforce some glueups or isolate the squeeze out glue from getting stuck in places where I do not want them to be glued. Good example of Scotch tape was my square bracket glueup setup on the trailer plywood floor. I put trasparent scotch tape where the glue queeze out lines are expected on the deck and it worked well. I did not have the panel stuck to the deck after the clamping period is over. It was my second version of the setup. First version was to use 6mil poly which worked, but i like the scotch tape better, it is thinner and cleaner, no wrinkles, easier to clean the glue residue too; just rubbed the strip with a rug and the glue is gone. I wish you success.
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:20 am

dales133 wrote:Was commenting on wolf hammers post ..:)

Ah, I see it now. Some how I missed that line the first time thru. :D

WW, The rosin paper is supposedly treated with something to make it help resist spills, but the cheap thin stuff from the box stores doesn't really seem to have that feature. It's in the big box stores near the paint supplies; check it out next time you are there. Mostly I used it because I already had a roll that I have been using to protect finished surfaces. It is kind of fibrous like craft paper. I would think that packing paper would work for this just as well.

OP827, Thanks. I appreciate your feedback! Both of the PL's (PLP and PL300) are fairly thick. The PLP is kind of like cake frosting, while the PL300 is a little stickier like peanut butter. Using my homemade (about) 1/8 inch notched trowel means that I am not squishing it very much, and the valleys of the notches provide a place for the peaks to squeeze into. There really isn't much squeeze out at all (mostly just where I "painted outside of the lines", and what there is is very manageable. My plan with the stretcher is to spread the adhesive, bed the foam in by hand, cleanup anything gross, then apply the stretcher. Since the stretcher is slightly narrower than the panel the only place I might have contact is at the bottom and I could even shim that up a bit.

Thanks again, everyone. :thumbsup:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
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