The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

Moderator: eaglesdare

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:40 am

Steam bending foam.... that’s very interesting.... one of the best properties of heat/steam bending foam is when it cools it stays in that shape forever ( till it’s heated to 190F again) .. no springback , no tendency to straighten out on it’s own ... :thumbsup: Gotta’ be MUCH better (STRONGER too) than all that kerfing... :thinking:
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14920
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wolffarmer » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:39 pm

At 11500 feet water boils at 190. Move to colorado and do some steam bending. will not have to monitor temps very much. 8)
"these guys must be afraid of the dark"
User avatar
Wolffarmer
Donating Member
 
Posts: 4612
Images: 309
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: Idaho Rupert

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:44 pm

I'm not a big fan of heat and humidity. Just saying.

The strength is in the skins anyway. The kerfing doesn't seem to hurt the strength of the assembly once it is adhered.

With a proper table saw kerfing is a cinch and goes very quickly. Didn't pay much for the saw (but it did take a bit of effort/travel to hunt down a deal and restore it to where it is functioning well).

Sure, I will have to fill the ends of the kerfs and maybe I have given up some insulating value, but I don't see how steam bending to a very specific profile (my choice, not the foam's) would really be much easier. I'd have to build or buy a steam rig (not too difficult, but at least some materials and work, or cash), perhaps a forming jig or two (assuming I didn't want to steam the whole hatch/galley/front radius), gotta figure there would be about the same number of hoops and oops to jump thru.

Feel free to experiment and report back. I'm in the home stretch using this method and just need to slog it out until I am thru. No looking back now, and if I ever build a 2nd I will be looking at much easier and more traditional methods (just because I think I could knock something out much quicker that way).

Oh yeah, don't forget that I am always struggling with seeking my idea of perfection. :? It will never happen, of course, but if you are less inclined to worry about the little stuff, and don't mind when things find there "own form" organically, then maybe either method would go more quickly and easily for you. :D
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9640
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Fred Trout » Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:00 pm

Yeah, not much of a fan of heat and humidity either which is why I moved to MT 35 years ago - well, that and fishing was better :lol:

Sorry if it seemed like I was being critical but I wasn't anyway. Just noting how much effort & redo was involved in getting the two layer job done. I am all too aware of my limited capabilities and love to see someone doing something excellent. And that's why I am doing a rectangular lump which is giving me all the trouble needed to make life interesting. :R

"Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is." Josey Wales
User avatar
Fred Trout
The 300 Club
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 4:30 pm
Location: SW Montana
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wobbly Wheels » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:37 pm

Fred Trout wrote:Seems like two foam layers added a goodly amount of technically more difficult & time consuming work. I wonder how well steaming 2" styro would work out ? Have been pretty impressed by the foam-bending in that slipstream design: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62852&start=15


Having steam bent wood for boat, I don't know that it would work at all. Because of foam's insulating nature, the heat would have a tough time penetrating to the center of the piece, which is paramount for bending since the whole piece has to be at the same flexibility or it will crack as it dries.
Secondly, the heat softens the cellulose fibers of the wood, which aren't present in foam - same reason you don't steam bend fiberglass or metal.

Perhaps if you slowly brought the temp up in a dry oven over hours or days, the heat would eventually penetrate to the center ?
User avatar
Wobbly Wheels
Donating Member
 
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:51 am
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:44 pm

WW, check out the Slipstream build.

Robot has successfully formed what looks like 1/2 or 3/4 foam using a couple of wall paper steamers and some towels while draped over his PVC pipe cabin frame. It is working for him, but he is probably going thru just as many contortions as I am.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9640
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby tony.latham » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:43 pm

Tony, somehow I missed your Thein separator post, above. Nice piece. Is it shown upside down? In other words, does the inlet port feed dust above or below the Thein baffle? I am assuming above based on the fact that the void for the vacuum filter must be on the other side in your pic.


Yes, it's upside down. You can see the Thein baffle in the photo. A Rockler wall-mount 4" vac does the sucking. It works better than I thought it would. The pink/blue dust is the real-deal for a test. Zero in the vacuum bag.

T
User avatar
tony.latham
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 7073
Images: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Middle of Idaho on the edge of nowhere
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:01 pm

Okay, this is pretty crude, but I managed to download the Movie Maker App (free from Microsoft); and was able to throw something up on utube showing how we took the floor up and shipped Karl's bikes down the rigging hatch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv05ryGEGgE&feature=youtu.be (3 min 14 sec)

If you are curious about what we are doing just before putting the fiberglass bats back in, they are held up by stiff wires that are wedged in between the joists, so we were putting the wires back into place.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9640
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Sheddie » Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:29 pm

:thumbsup: would have been easier to keep the bikes down stairs, but no where near as much fun. :applause:
User avatar
Sheddie
1000 Club
1000 Club
 
Posts: 1499
Images: 1129
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:26 pm
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:34 am

Sheddie wrote:would have been easier to keep the bikes down stairs...


Yeah, that was Karl's take on things, too, but downstairs is a dirty production area and the out buildings provide less protection from moisture and rodents. He put them up in 2008 and that was the last time they saw "the light of day". The loft was a great place to store them, but not a great place to ride them, nor as easy to access as Karl had hoped. The other two "collector" bikes, a Kenny Roberts Yamaha RZ350 2-stroke, and a classic 70's era Kz1000, remain tucked away.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9640
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:32 am

Instant gratification! That’s what I felt today after all of the different methods I’ve tried to stick foam to my roof.

Sure, nothing I have tried has been a complete failure, but some methods or products used have had compromises or little “adjustments” that were needed post application.

I looked back but didn’t find who it was that suggested I reconsider using the 3M green contact adhesive. Whoever it was, thank you.

On Monday I did a test using some of that battered 1 inch pink foam. Two quick coats brushed on.
Image

Made pretty good contact over most of it…
Image

… but there was one edge that I just couldn’t get to come together no matter how hard I pressed (to the point of making dents in the foam). It seems that the irregularities from having been used as a shipping buffer and maybe the depressions from the print work kept the edge apart on one side.
Image

Today I grabbed that same edge and was able to pull it up, but instead of tearing apart the foam started crushing when the stuck part came into play.
Image

I sliced that little edge off and with the reduced surface area I had enough strength to get the portion that had actually stuck to fail; and it tore at the foam .
Image

Stuck like the dickens where it was flat face to face, but the adhesive didn’t have any gap filling capability.
Image

So that suggested that it would work good on the hatch where I was pretty sure I could get good contact, but I was a little leery about the edges of the hatch where the overhanging skin sort of whooped a bit and I might want at least a little gap filling capability so that there wouldn’t be any open edges (aside from the kerfs, that is). So I figured why not paint the field with the contact but hold back on the edges for some of the PL3. That way the contact should give me the instant grab that I wanted to lock the panel into position fast (eliminating the issue of clamp slipping, stretcher pulling, and the need to pin with bamboo that never seemed to hold enough), and would likely hold the foam stable enough to keep it from lifting off of the PL3 at the edge. Here we go.
Image

I had poured about half a paper cup and just painted it on with a small chip brush. The print side of the panel didn’t seem to take it as well as the scuffed up surface on the hatch, so I went back and painted the perimeter and a few extra stripes with another coat, just to use up what I had in the cup.
Image

Once that was close to being done kicking off I spread a bead of PL3 along the bead edge of the lower panel (on the piece already stuck to the hatch) and up both sides of the glue area where I had left it bare. Next I spread the PL3 with the little notched trowel, which went quickly because there was not nuch area to cover. Then with the panel tilted back a fair way to prevent premature adhesion, I used the match marks I had made during the dry fit to align the lower edge.
Image

That allowed me to tip the panel up with a nice tight join at the bead and cove and get the first couple of kerfs to grab on the green contact. From there I worked up the middle a bit sticking it down, then pushing out along the kerfs to set it. Part way up it held itself close enough to pull the wires thru, and I just kept working it like that.
Image Image
Image

Before I knew it, it was stuck down really well. The alignment was exactly how I had dry fit it, and both the top and bottom edges were nice and straight, and tight. It was about this time that I was so pleased that I let out a huge chuckling whoop. I was so happy. No clamps, no backers, no sketchy stretcher, and it worked beautifully to plan. Only a slight uncertainty as to what it will look like tomorrow, but that is just experience talking.

Right at the very edge there did seem to be a little separation, so I was glad that I used the PL3 there.
Image

In the field I could tell it was down well by the thump sound it made when I bumped the outside with my hand (very monolithic) and by inspecting around the clearance light wire recesses.
Image

Something else that I have been keeping an eye on is the hatch inner skin to side wall edge overlap. You may recall that I trimmed the galley upper shelf face frame and counter edge rail down just a touch to pull the walls in enough to make this fair. Now it seems that the walls are moving around a bit with temperature and/or humidity. The street side hatch rib has a varying degree of rub on the inside of the wall and at times I have seen the street side hatch skin hanging over the wall by almost 1/4 inch. Most of the time lately it has only been overhanging by about 1/16 inch each side. This is at the “point” of the radius where it is farthest away from the interior tie points. Away from there, above the shelf frame and below the counter it stays fair. It’s hard to see in these pics, but if you ignore the wild edge of the foam on top you can kind of see what I mean. That and the gap I spent all of that time so carefully setting has opened up in these areas (maybe the skin overhanging outside of the rib is winging up?).
Image
Image

The latter is not such a concern as I half expect to have to work on that some more when the canvas is on. For the fairness of the outside edge and rib rub, I will probably have to shim the ends of the shelf frame and counter rail back out.

Still, it was a good day in the loft. :thumbsup:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9640
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Wolffarmer » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:40 am

Cool
"these guys must be afraid of the dark"
User avatar
Wolffarmer
Donating Member
 
Posts: 4612
Images: 309
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: Idaho Rupert
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:17 am

Just a precaution ... the airplane guys found that some 3M contact cements would outgas when placed in the heat of the Sun, causing the foam to melt . Just sayin’... :roll:
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14920
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:35 am

I'll put that test piece out in the yard and see what happens. :thinking:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
TnTTT ORIGINAL 200A LANTERN CLUB = "The 200A Gang"
Green Lantern Corpsmen
User avatar
KCStudly
Donating Member
 
Posts: 9640
Images: 8169
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 pm
Location: Southeastern CT, USA
Top

Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:59 am

Another test !!! Fingers crossed !!! Hoping for the best :thumbsup: .... the 3M CC in question was the ubiquitous 3M77 ...
There’s no place like Foam !
User avatar
GPW
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 14920
Images: 546
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: New Orleans
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Foamies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests