The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

[Fred Trout]

How are you going to deal with the wires sticking up when you apply the canvas ? Tuck them in & apply the field & free them once everything is down or cut a hole while putting on the canvas ? I have that issue to resolve too.

[KCStudly]

Yeah, first I plan to back cover, or "jamb out" the corners and wire recesses with bed sheet material. Then as I roll the main canvas over the glue a little at a time I'll make slits to tuck the wires thru when I get to them. Then after it has cured I will cut darts, or gores, and lay the canvas down into the recesses.

I will probably do some testing before I get to the real deal.

[Fred Trout]

Thanks for that info.

I would suggest you fold in the darts & overlaps while the canvas TBII is still wet; a little harder to trim even but it will actually fold in neater & turn the corner better since it isn't hardened. You should have enough time to do all that if you mist a little water as you are applying. I had 30-60+ mins open time before the TB II got too stiff to fold around corners and cut neatness is not that important since it does not show in this case.

[KCStudly]

Okay, that might work. I guess I was thinking there wouldn't be any glue on the canvas over the recesses, so it would still be flexible, but then again I might want to paint the back of the canvas with glue, too, so I will take that all into account.

[dales133]

Looking good kc realy taking up some momentum now.
It's incredible how much times taken up thinking and planning around this stage.
I hoped to get the ply on before I went away (tomorrow) but I've been procrastinating about positions of lights and additional bloking.
Look forward to seeing your progress while I'm sipping long islands in the tropics

[KCStudly]

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement, Dale.

Sounds like the trip of a lifetime.

There surely is a lot to think about, and to try and predict on these little campers. So many things that are easier to do right before hand, if we could just figure out what "right" is before we get too far.

[Fred Trout]

so it would still be flexible

The open areas of the recesses would be unaltered canvas but the squeegee & capillary action pulls the TBII into the first 1/4 to 1/2 inch at the edge. If you let that dry out, your corner turning will be lumpy & ugly and may not actually contact the foam immediately "around the corner" because it is so stiff. Doing it as you go beats getting out the iron & heating it so it will turn the corner evenly. Test it out on a scrap -- squeegee & smooth to the edges & let it dry to see what I mean.

[dales133]

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement, Dale.

Sounds like the trip of a lifetime.

There surely is a lot to think about, and to try and predict on these little campers. Some many things that are easier to do right before hand, if we could just figure out what "right" is before we get too far.

Yea there's no chance of adding blocking for hatch struts or hand rails ect once it's skinned.
I ment to ask you to ...did you use solid timber for your hatch ribs?
I'm going to leave mine exposed as I like the look of it and timber would look better than ply, was just concerned about its stability

[KCStudly]

Thanks. I am a lot embarrassed that I haven't actually done any tests with the canvas. Taking a lot on faith, wouldn't you say?

My fall back plan has always been to use epoxy with the canvas, or even switch over to glass like atahoekid did.

I have a lot more work to do, including tests. But before I get the canvas out and figure out how much extra I have to play with, I want to get everything prepped; get the shop cleaned well so I don't load the canvas with a bunch of dust; and get the canvas washed out. Then I can drape it over the cabin, rough cut the bigger pieces to size, make sure I have enough for the doors (I added a yard here and there when considering the top, hatch and sides, but I didn't specifically include for the doors).

All this is down the road a ways, as there is still a lot to do before I get to that point.

Re: my hatch ribs. They are mitered Red Grandis 1x6's joined with biscuits. Rough cut with the jig or vertical band saw (don't remember which at the moment) then trimmed to a luan template using a flush cutting bit in the router.

I wanted to keep things light and have minimal blocking between the ribs; just the bumper stabilizing the tips at the bottom and the two hatch actuator braces with the lightening holes in them (aka the paper towel hanger). At the top they are screwed under slung to the hinge spar. I think my hatch would be a little more rigid if I had made the hinge spar deeper to pickup the top ends of the ribs (i.e. I should have made the spar deeper so that the ribs could have been butted or dadoed into the spar). If I had it to do over again I would have done that; but I am still hopeful that it will stiffen up a lot more when the outer canvas skin is applied.

On another topic, I have been watching the side wall fit with the hatch closely. With this hotter more humid weather it has come back pretty much to the way that I fit it.

[OP827]

KC, I am amazed of your craftsmanship, you are taking your time and building a masterpiece that not only you, but anyone that happen to be near her will greatly enjoy just by looking at what you have built. You are getting close to covering the foam.

Have you made your choice of materials? Is that going to be canvas and TB2 or fiberglass and epoxy?

[KCStudly]

Thanks for the glowing endorsement, OP.

I bought 16 yds of #12 (11-1/2 oz) cotton duck cloth a very long time ago, and will probably use it; although I do waffle sometimes and think that I might switch to glass. Still haven't decided on glue vs. epoxy.

[OP827]

KC, I wonder if you could gently tip the trailer on its side while doing the skin lamination to have the gravity on your side while working with canvas or glass cloth lamination. With your trailer being light and not fixed to heavy frame yet it could be a not a bad idea, maybe ? And the trailer being small and light you could also tip it back and forth, that could improve lamination quality and perhaps make such job easier. Just a thought FWIW..

[Fred Trout]

Epoxy is heavy & spendy if weight or cost is any consideration. Put on 20 pounds of epoxy and you add pretty much 20 pounds versus most of the weight in TBII and paint being water & volatiles that evaporates. Epoxy is definitely more difficult for the novice and beautiful for the expert.

OTOH, seems to be much harder to get a glossy & smooth finish with canvas & TBII. I am going to see how possible it is on mine since I like the smooth finish look.

Tough decision in many ways.

[OP827]

Epoxy is heavy & spendy if weight or cost is any consideration. Put on 20 pounds of epoxy and you add pretty much 20 pounds versus most of the weight in TBII and paint being water & volatiles that evaporates. Epoxy is definitely more difficult for the novice and beautiful for the expert.

OTOH, seems to be much harder to get a glossy & smooth finish with canvas & TBII. I am going to see how possible it is on mine since I like the smooth finish look.

Tough decision in many ways.

I did not do such objective comparison, but I feel that fibeglass being thinner and smoother than canvas and with epoxy being low viscosity vs TB2, the layer of FG epoxy lamination would have to be thinner than canvas+TB2, so I am not sure if it is as clear of a cut as noted above here. I also feel that with epoxy setting time being much longer than TB2, the quality of glassing with FG is actually quite easy to achieve, JMHO and experience with laminating of other things. I personaly plan to first fair the whole foam sufrace with epoxy and microballs mix before glassing and then sand it smooth, so the backing surface is smooth and good. Then when I glass, all I need to do is lay the glass cloth, and spread the epoxy over the surface similar to kayak builds (see on youtube) to the glass cloth thickness thus giving a good surface. Kayaks are very light when built like that, BTW, just my 0.02.

[KCStudly]

First let me say that I really am not a bodywork kind of guy. I give up seeking perfection far too soon.

I hadn't thought about tipping the cabin to aid in applying the sides skins, but I am pretty sure that I will be "keeling it over" (tipping it over to rest on the floor edge and one rail of the build cradle) in order to be able to reach the center of the roof so that I can fair the roof foam to the spars w/o killing my back leaning over. So I guess the next logical conclusion is to consider the same technique for skinning. Thanks OP.

Weight is less of a concern for me than durability. I expect the camper to live outside a good deal of its life unless I get rid of a bunch of other "toys" (... read that as "derelict projects"). I think I'm doing pretty good on my weight goal of under 1500 lbs fully loaded for the long haul, although time will tell.

Seems to me that our fellow TDer's have already proven that it is not that difficult to fill the canvas weave with block fill primer or Glidden gripper. The smoother you want it, the more coats you add. I kind of like the idea of the canvas texture to a certain degree. A little pattern but not rough to the touch.

Karl has a lot more experience with composites than I do, so I am buoyed with that confidence; and after a few smaller projects (including the front radius reinforcement done here) I am more comfortable working with the glass (or perhaps canvas) and epoxy. For my next practice/trick, I will line the battery compartment with glass and see how that goes.

I still haven't ruled out the TB2, in fact I already have another unopened gallon (... or two?) standing by with no other purpose.