Winter driving

[Mike S]

Winter is upon us. We've been using our CTC all year round, rain, snow, or shine, for the last 18 months. I think last night was the most adventurous towing experience to date. North-central Washington has been experiencing sub-freezing temps for the last week or so. Yesterday a warm front rolled in bringing snow and rain. By the time we left work for our 150 mile commute home, it had turned to mostly rain, with air temperatures at around freezing. Those conditions, of course, mean one can expect freezing rain. Empty, my Tundra is the best handling winter vehicle I've ever owned. I've got sipped all-terrain tires. The truck weighs around 6000 lbs as driven. That makes for some pretty good traction. Add a 4000 lb trailer and it gets a little more interesting. Almost out of the parking lot, I was getting rear wheel spin on acceleration. On roads that we normally travel 60+ MPH, I slowed down to 40-45 MPH. Traveling at a constant speed on flat roads was not a big deal. When I got to an uphill I could sense wheel spin as I gave it more gas. The traction control warning light flashed. It's interesting because, almost always, I can feel the truck loose traction before the traction control system come on...so I don't know how valuable that safety feature is. But anyway, put the truck in four wheel drive and traction on the uphills improved. Slowing down; the best advice when driving on ice is not to use the brakes at all. On the wide open, low traffic rural roads of north-central Washington, we have the luxury of having good stopping distance. At one junction in the road where we had to make a turn. I slowed down to almost a complete stop. The ice must have been particularly bad at that spot because we could actually feel the truck and trailer slide laterally toward the right side of the road. I gave it some gas and we regained traction and continued on.

We passed a lot of cars that had slid off the road. Luckily no one was seriously hurt. Some cars were passing us. All and all, the drive that normally takes 2 hours and 45 minutes took 4 hours. But we got home safely. End of rant. I hope to never drive in those conditions with the trailer again!

[lrrowe]

I have not experienced those conditions yet with my rig. Glad you made it home ok.

[hankaye]

Mike S, Howdy;

Sounds like you keep a level head during stress, that's a good thing in those conditions.

It also sounds like your CT is a tad tail heavy and is "Lifting" the rear of your truck slightly.
Doesn't take much ... something I would look at if it were mine. Just a suggestion ... find
a level spot and measure the height of your wheel-wells (front & back), then re measure
with the trailer hooked-up. If the front shows a shorter distance or the rear shows more
then your CT is lifting the rear end of the truck and you might want to re think the CT's
weight & balance. Or throw a few hundred pounds of sand bags into the back end of the
bed of the truck. It will also help if you get stuck on the slippery stuff.
I'm glad you made it home safely.

hank

[Mike S]

Mike S, Howdy;

Sounds like you keep a level head during stress, that's a good thing in those conditions.

It also sounds like your CT is a tad tail heavy and is "Lifting" the rear of your truck slightly.
Doesn't take much ... something I would look at if it were mine. Just a suggestion ... find
a level spot and measure the height of your wheel-wells (front & back), then re measure
with the trailer hooked-up. If the front shows a shorter distance or the rear shows more
then your CT is lifting the rear end of the truck and you might want to re think the CT's
weight & balance. Or throw a few hundred pounds of sand bags into the back end of the
bed of the truck. It will also help if you get stuck on the slippery stuff.
I'm glad you made it home safely.

hank

Good point. I have never measured my tongue weight but I assume it's fairly heavy because I do get a fair amount of sag, a few inches, when I hook up. Are you suggesting that I have a negative tongue weight?

[lrrowe]

I can relate from experience that if you have a negative tongue weight, you will get trailer sway.

[hankaye]

MikeS, Howdy;

Mike S, Howdy;

Sounds like you keep a level head during stress, that's a good thing in those conditions.

It also sounds like your CT is a tad tail heavy and is "Lifting" the rear of your truck slightly.
Doesn't take much ... something I would look at if it were mine. Just a suggestion ... find
a level spot and measure the height of your wheel-wells (front & back), then re measure
with the trailer hooked-up. If the front shows a shorter distance or the rear shows more
then your CT is lifting the rear end of the truck and you might want to re think the CT's
weight & balance. Or throw a few hundred pounds of sand bags into the back end of the
bed of the truck. It will also help if you get stuck on the slippery stuff.
I'm glad you made it home safely.

hank

Good point. I have never measured my tongue weight but I assume it's fairly heavy because I do get a fair amount of sag, a few inches, when I hook up. Are you suggesting that I have a negative tongue weight?

From the narrative that's what it sounded like. It's hard to tell, ... if, as you say, you get
"a fair amount of sag", best way is to scale it. The general Rule of thumb is 60% in front
of the axle and the other 40% behind.

Edit to add the following;
Just looked into your album, Looks like you would have to work real hard to make
the CT tail heavy. Have you checked see if you have an "Open" rear end, meaning that
it's basically 1 wheel drive. Something I need to address with my "4-wheel drive" that came
with an "Open rear" (is it drafty in here or is it just me).

hank

[Mike S]

Although I've never weighed the trailer I'm sure my tongue weight is okay. If anything its probably on the tongue-heavy side. Another "test" of balance is when we are disconnected at a campground, we actually sleep mostly behind the axle. The queen size bed takes up the rear 5 feet of the trailer. My wife and I and two big dogs probably account for almost 400 lbs. The trailer doesn't tip.

So, if anything the trailer adds a degree of traction to the rear wheels. However, not enough to make up for the added deadweight of the trailer as a whole. Still I should take it ti the scales sometime to check the weight distribution.

[hankaye]

MikeS, Howdy;

When you experienced the rear-wheel spin did the back end feel like it was
trying to shift to the driver's side (back end going Left) ? If so, that is an indication
of an Open Rear.
One way to check is find some loose gravel, dirt, sand whatever, as long as it's loose.
come to a full stop then do a hole shot. check to see if you left 2 tire marks or just 1.
That will tell if you have an open rear or not. Limited slip will leave 2 tire marks. Posi-trac
will hop around when you make tight turns as both want to spin at the same rate instead
of the inner slower and the outer quicker.

hank

[lrrowe]

Is "open rear" corrected with a locking differential? I have never heard the term before.

[jss06]

Open rear means there is no method to transfer power from a slipping wheel to one with traction. While a locker does correct this, it can Introduce some very odd handling characteristics on ice that can catch you by suprise if you are not aware it is in the axle. No means is it dangerous if you include it in your driving awareness.

[MtnDon]

Open = each wheel free to turn at its own speed or to not turn at all. This is found in most cars and trucks.

Limited Slip = as the name implies, there can be a small amount of speed difference between the two wheels, but that is limited. A small amount of slip is permitted to make it easy / normal to go around corners where the inside wheel goes slower.

Locked = when activated each wheel / axle shaft is locked to the other. When the locker os Off it is an open diff. There can be no speed difference between the two. When cornering the two wheels are locked and must turn at the same speed. Therefore at least one wheel must break traction. Driving on dry pavement can cause mechanical damage if the diff is left locked. A locked diff can also make the vehicle axle slide sideways on a slippery side slope. Lockers are good but they require some knowledge to use effectively and safely.


My Tacoma is a TRD Off Road model and came with the factory installed rear electric locker. Electric = actuated by a solenoid.

[lrrowe]

Thanks MtnDon,
I knew about the others but not "Open".
With my F150 I have "Auto", regular 4W and locking differential. And with my driving needs, I use them all at least once or twice a month. My drive is very steep.

[Mike S]

Mine has an open rear diff with a traction control feature that uses computer controlled braking to simulate a limited slip diff. That system is arguably safer in the ice than full locking differentials.

[lrrowe]

Mine has an open rear diff with a traction control feature that uses computer controlled braking to simulate a limited slip diff. That system is arguably safer in the ice than full locking differentials.

Hmmm, I have that traction control feature too. Does that mean I have an open rear diff? I just do not know. But if so, I am sure learning something here.

[Mike S]

Mine has an open rear diff with a traction control feature that uses computer controlled braking to simulate a limited slip diff. That system is arguably safer in the ice than full locking differentials.

Hmmm, I have that traction control feature too. Does that mean I have an open rear diff? I just do not know. But if so, I am sure learning something here.

Yep, we have open diffs.