Lowes "Top choice" FAIL

[VegasNick]

So this is an issue that I ran into with my teardrop. I used the Premium Choice, 3/4 Maple from Lowes. (about $50 a sheet) After about 6 months, I noticed a few cracks in the sides. They were very small but noticeable in the paint. So, I sanded the paint and primer off where I could see the small crack. As I started looking at how to repair it, I sanded some more and found what you see in the final photo. The wood is absolute junk, and the veneer if paper thin. Every place one of these cracks developed, there is a giant void underneath the veneer over a knot. I called Lowes and they pretty much told me that I should have bought better wood. at any rate, I am going to try to work through Lowes corporate till I get to the manufacturer and give them a freaking ear full. Had I paid attention, I would have seen all the other negative reviews for the same issue.

Have any of you seen this?







http://www.lowes.com/pd_75514-99899-755 ... 58448&pl=1

[halfdome, Danny]

You may have to call someone in China to settle your beef with the poor quality plywood.
The last 10 years or so I've experienced plywood form the afore mentioned country, and others offshore, that will delaminate in the center of the sheet once you cut into a 3/4" x 48" X 96" sheet.
I've stopped buying Red Oak plywood from Lowes and Home Depot since it's all filled with knots on the B side and a few on the A side.
The A side should be knot & check free or it's not a premium grade of plywood.
Find an independent lumber yard and ask questions & check out the plywood before making a purchase.
Danny

[lrrowe]

I have not tried him yet, but a small local cabinet maker tells me I should order from him as he can save me $$$ and get better quality lumber then the big box stores.

[MtnDon]

"Top Choice", Premium Choice", etc. are simple marketing tools. Those words are not official grades.

I'm only being the messenger here; don't shoot me.

Unfortunately, almost all hardwood plywood sold in the USA and Canada is manufactured with type II adhesives. It is best described as making a somewhat water resistant bond between the plywood layers. Type I is what is required for exterior use of a hardwood plywood. Unlike softwood panels that are grade stamped on the worst side hardwood panels are seldom stamped. If you need exterior use then asking a knowledgeable person at the supplier is necessary. I always go with the thought that any hardwood plywood I see uses type II, sorta water resistant, glue.

Some hardwood plywood info. Hardwood plywood is considered an appearance product whereas softwood plywood is mainly graded as a structural product. Different rules apply to hardwood vs softwood.

That link to the Lowes product does state "Weather Exposure For interior use" so it is not really the fault of the product if the trailer was used outside.

[VegasNick]

You may have to call someone in China to settle your beef with the poor quality plywood.
The last 10 years or so I've experienced plywood form the afore mentioned country, and others offshore, that will delaminate in the center of the sheet once you cut into a 3/4" x 48" X 96" sheet.
I've stopped buying Red Oak plywood from Lowes and Home Depot since it's all filled with knots on the B side and a few on the A side.
The A side should be knot & check free or it's not a premium grade of plywood.
Find an independent lumber yard and ask questions & check out the plywood before making a purchase.
Danny

Danny,
That is probably the exact truth of the matter. I'll probably just end skinning it with aluminum when all is said and done.

[VegasNick]

"Top Choice", Premium Choice", etc. are simple marketing tools. Those words are not official grades.

I'm only being the messenger here; don't shoot me.

Unfortunately, almost all hardwood plywood sold in the USA and Canada is manufactured with type II adhesives. It is best described as making a somewhat water resistant bond between the plywood layers. Type I is what is required for exterior use of a hardwood plywood. Unlike softwood panels that are grade stamped on the worst side hardwood panels are seldom stamped. If you need exterior use then asking a knowledgeable person at the supplier is necessary. I always go with the thought that any hardwood plywood I see uses type II, sorta water resistant, glue.

Some hardwood plywood info. Hardwood plywood is considered an appearance product whereas softwood plywood is mainly graded as a structural product. Different rules apply to hardwood vs softwood.

That link to the Lowes product does state "Weather Exposure For interior use" so it is not really the fault of the product if the trailer was used outside.

I agree and understand that marine grade plywood would have been the way to go. I had read several builds using this wood with no issues. If you go look at the feedback on the Lowes site for the past three years, people have had issues with the same thing that I did and they were building way less "abused" projects than mine. for the time being, I'll address them as they happen and maybe skin it later on. I have too much into this to start over.

[noseoil]

All of the hardwood plywoods are now basically interior plywood with a skin of 0.025" rotary cut veneer (typically). They're fine for interior furnishings like cabinets & shelves, but were never designed or manufactured for exterior applications. I say go ahead & skin with aluminum & be done with it. You can find pre-finished aluminum from sign suppliers in different colors at a reasonable price. I got my 4 x 10 for about $65 a sheet for the sides. See if you have a sign material distributor near you in a larger city.

It will cost more now than you had anticipated to finish things, but as you said, there's enough time & $ invested now. If a few more dollars is just what it takes to insure a longer life of the build, it's worth the effort. Sorry you had to deal with this one.

[dmdc411]

After much research prior to building my tear, I came to the conclusion that Lowe's isn't the best. Home Depot not any better than Menards. So, I purchased my plywood, cut a corner off and let it soak in water for 3 weeks. No delaminations. Sorry to hear of the problems! Marine grades rely expensive, but if want to see the grain, it's gonna cost. If it gonna have aluminum over it, the decent cheap stuff is the way to go!

[dales133]

Sorry to hear this what a disapointment that must be.
Im dreading anything like that happening to mine.
Id be inclined to agree covering in aluminium or alternativly canvas or a combination of both would be your best option

[VijayGupta]

I've had more bad experiences with the Chinese crap that I care to admit. Last year, I bought some from a large industrial supplier that was guaranteed to be premium, had co. inspectors on site at factory, blah blah blah. The veneer was so thin that I got microscopic splinters whenever I handled it. They were out of 1/4" stock so I started with 3/4" and went back a week later. The 1/4" stuff was so warped I had a hard time sawing it straight.

The "non-premium" stuff is even worse -- between 8 and 14 plies depending on where you look, overlaps, voids, and plies that are little better than straw.

I had a customer that bought some once and claimed what good deal it was. A piece sat out in the mist on the loading dock for about 20 minutes. It was already delaminating. I think it was held together with duck spit.

Since then, I've insisted on USA or Canadian made only. It's not worth saving a few dollars a sheet for that junk. If we all quit buying it, they'll change.

"There is hardly anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and those people who consider price only, are this man's lawful prey. It is unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot; it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better"

John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

[halfdome, Danny]

"There is hardly anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and those people who consider price only, are this man's lawful prey. It is unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot; it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better"

John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

So true, one of my favorite quotes, use to see it in Baskin & Robbins 31 flavors.
Danny

[dales133]

That is very true

[elcam84]

So this is an issue that I ran into with my teardrop. I used the Premium Choice, 3/4 Maple from Lowes. (about $50 a sheet) After about 6 months, I noticed a few cracks in the sides. They were very small but noticeable in the paint. So, I sanded the paint and primer off where I could see the small crack. As I started looking at how to repair it, I sanded some more and found what you see in the final photo. The wood is absolute junk, and the veneer if paper thin. Every place one of these cracks developed, there is a giant void underneath the veneer over a knot. I called Lowes and they pretty much told me that I should have bought better wood. at any rate, I am going to try to work through Lowes corporate till I get to the manufacturer and give them a freaking ear full. Had I paid attention, I would have seen all the other negative reviews for the same issue.

Have any of you seen this?







http://www.lowes.com/pd_75514-99899-755 ... 58448&pl=1

I'm a woodworker and see lots of bad plywood but that stuff is very strange. I have never seen any hardwood veneered plywood that used a pine core. Except for lumber core which is barely called plywood. Birch maple oak etc plywood always use a poplar core but some are starting to use a species of eucalyptus for the core. I'll check our lowes and see if they are selling hardwood ply with pine core. maple isn't typically carried at the store here.

Columbia has started using lyptus core ply and is available at home depot and plywood suppliers. It's junk. It will give you lots of splinters and just cutting a sheet it will warp not just warp like ply usually does but say you cut a sheet lengthwise in half. Those cuts won't be straight after cutting because the ply will warp and make the cut curved.

Columbia also uses an adhesive called purebred which is a formaldehyde free glue and it's ok but not as good as the old stuff or what so e others are using.


I have had lots of problems with the domestic made plywood in the last couple years. All plywood has a very thin veneer anymore and there is a manufacturer that makes some with thicker veneer but it's pricey.

Some of the domestic ply I have bought lately has been so bad that I started buying the imported stuff and it has been much better in quality than the domestic plywood. I have seen many sheets of domestic ply have the veneer peeling off in the store or warehouse.

Also FYI the govt put a tariff in place on imported plywood not too long ago because the lumber industry was loosing sales. Well the imported stuff wasn't much cheaper and I started buying it because it was being made better than domestic. Now the imported stuff at the borgs Is not what I'm talking about with its pink saw blade eating glue. Unfortunately this tariff also applied to Baltic and Finnish birch which Is not and cannot be made here. It's the highest quality plywood you can get and we just don't have that type of tree here.



Enough rambling for now. The best plywood for a painted teardrop is mdo it's available at plywood suppliers. It's specifically designed for being in the weather. It uses a water resistant glue and has a paper face that paints very well. It's the plywood used for making freeway signs. Not sure on price without looking it up but usually around $75 a sheet and available in large sizes ie 5' wide and 10' long sometimes bigger.

[rowerwet]

I've had mostly good luck with the 1/4" sureply made by patriot timber. Most of my boats are made of it, along with my first tear. Any gaps in the wood layers are filled with flour like sawdust. This causes issues when the wood gets soaked, but if it is covered well and sealed it has no issues.