Cost of building vs. buying doors, and window questions

[Little Foot]

Good to know! It'd be just like me to smash the window getting out of the camper on a late night bathroom run! Thanks again for your help!

[rowerwet]

Every wiley window I know of has a screen. I camp in the Adirondacks every year and can't remember seeing any bugs. My linked thread has pictures from a sailboat build with wiley windows that look much more finished than my simple builds. The 6" depth of the window frame is up high so no issues lying in bed, with the door open the whole assembly is out of the way.
I build my windows around a standard size plexiglass panel stocked at every home Depot.
I tried manufactured windows, they don't open much with sliders, crank outs are expensive, and easy to break.

[Little Foot]

Rowerwet, thanks again for your help and suggestions. I'm not ruling anything out at this point, and I am definitely going to look into the wiley windows more indepthly before deciding anything. But I'm pretty sure I know I'm not going to want to use plexiglass. I have a lot of experience with acrylics and plexi, and I just don't think it's for me in this application, but that's just my feeling and opinion. And I freely admit that I don't know as much as others about building a teardrop camper, but I assure you that bugs go hand and hand with the NY Adirondacks. I've climbed 36 of the 46 ADK high peaks, and done plenty of canoe and car camping up there over the years. They are typically worse in the spring than other times of the year, so perhaps you've been lucky and missed the worst of them, but I have had trips where you'd swear they sucked 10 pounds of blood out of you in a day. The black flies are a known issue in the region, and indeed some of the local towns treat some of the smaller bodies of water in the spring to minimize the bug issues around the towns. My wife and I had one trip in the St. Regis canoe area one late May where the bugs were so bad that my wife stayed in our tent and I tried to fish with wet towels over my head to prevent myself from being mauraded. In the end we pulled out early and drove to our favorite hotel in Lake Placid; it was brutal. You also see mosquito netting hats and clothing sold in all the local sporting goods places because a lot of folks use them to minimize the bitting and just annoying insects out there. So again maybe I've had good luck with the bugs, and indeed some of my trips have been just fine, but at the right time of year the bugs will almost pick you up and fly away with you

[daveesl77]

My wiley windows all have screens. So do the doors. Nice part about the windows is I made them large enough to where I can put in a cheap O2 12volt fan right into the frame and it provides a nice breeze, for $25

dave

[Graniterich]

Every wiley window I know of has a screen. I camp in the Adirondacks every year and can't remember seeing any bugs. My linked thread has pictures from a sailboat build with wiley windows that look much more finished than my simple builds. The 6" depth of the window frame is up high so no issues lying in bed, with the door open the whole assembly is out of the way.
I build my windows around a standard size plexiglass panel stocked at every home Depot.
I tried manufactured windows, they don't open much with sliders, crank outs are expensive, and easy to break.

Would you please clarify how they are easy to break? I have not experienced that. I also don't think that in the total cost of a teardrop $50 is expensive.

[rowerwet]

Every wiley window I know of has a screen. I camp in the Adirondacks every year and can't remember seeing any bugs. My linked thread has pictures from a sailboat build with wiley windows that look much more finished than my simple builds. The 6" depth of the window frame is up high so no issues lying in bed, with the door open the whole assembly is out of the way.
I build my windows around a standard size plexiglass panel stocked at every home Depot.
I tried manufactured windows, they don't open much with sliders, crank outs are expensive, and easy to break.

Would you please clarify how they are easy to break? I have not experienced that. I also don't think that in the total cost of a teardrop $50 is expensive.

The issues with swinging the door to too far and breaking them, as well as snagging them just walking by, the gearbox and crank has failed on every crank out window I've ever seen, from pickup caps, to house, to camper. The gears aND handle are cheap cheap, weak metal, even from top house window makers.
I don't even remove the plastic from the Plexiglas, I like the privacy it gives.
I canoe and camp on follensby, upper Saranac, vermontville, and fish creek, I've only done little Joe a few times and Whiteface. My sister lives in lake placid, no issues with bugs, but I'm not usually one they go after anyway. (Garlic in the blood) we had plenty of black flies at my house in Maine.

[Little Foot]

My wiley windows all have screens. So do the doors. Nice part about the windows is I made them large enough to where I can put in a cheap O2 12volt fan right into the frame and it provides a nice breeze, for $25

dave

Dave, thanks again for the advice. I'm going to look into the wiley windows some more before I decide.

[Little Foot]

I canoe and camp on follensby, upper Saranac, vermontville, and fish creek, I've only done little Joe a few times and Whiteface. My sister lives in lake placid, no issues with bugs, but I'm not usually one they go after anyway. (Garlic in the blood) we had plenty of black flies at my house in Maine.

Rowerwet, I have back-country camped (backpacks or canoes and small tents) in and around all those places, and car camped in the "little brother" of Fish Creek, Rollins Pond, which is probably our favorite for car camping. I have encountered times of "buggyness" in all those places and more. Around towns such as Lake Placid the local municipalities treat the surrounding waters where a lot of insects multiply, so that may be why you haven't noticed the little devils around Lake Place. Indeed, the town of North Elba has what they call a Black Fly Control Departemnt, and you can read about that and how they treat the local waters at the following link:

http://www.northelba.org/?page=services/black-fly-control-dept

Additinally, there's an annual mountain bike race called the Black Fly Challange.

http://blackflychallenge.com

So clearly insects, particularly the black flies, are a part of the Adirondacks and their culture, and one I want to make sure I have defenses against, especially when car or camper camping,which is supposed to be relaxing

[daveesl77]

Here is my basic door structure, with the wiley windows being initially attached. Actually, they were just laying on the door panels while I arranged the various photos to attach.



Here are the rear windows, prior to me adding in the screens. You'll notice none of these stick into the cabin very far.



And it allows you to make an exterior window shape of any design. Here is the camper at the November 2015 Tearjerker's gathering at Anastasia SP. You'll see the O2 fan in the door and the door screen.



As to storing the plexi, you can make a small wall bracket near each window to hold the pane, if you remove it.

dave

[KennethW]

Wiley windows are very changeable .here is mine with a propane radiant heater.

And as you can see, they do not take a lot of space and wouldn't hit the outside wall when the door is fully open. Awning windows will without a stop.
I simple swamp cool could be made up too. with a wet towel and the roof vent.

[Little Foot]

@Dave - Thanks for posting pics of your window! Everyone seems to be taking about plexiglass, and as I've mentioned I really don't want plexi in my windows. Would these wiley windows work with glass?

@KennethW - Thanks for adding your pic; cool dog! We have a Boxer/Lab mix and a smaller Terrier mix that will be coming with us on our trips.

Thanks to everyone for all the help!!

[daveesl77]

Yes, they will work with glass, as that is how they were used for hundreds of years on boats. However, for safety you'd want tempered glass and it really doesn't add much to it except a high cost. With plexi (mine is 3/16 thick) I got a sheet big enough to cut out all 4 windows from HD for about $20-$25. If and when one breaks, it is very easy to get another piece, cut it out with almost anything, smooth the edges and you are back in business. Plus, you don't have to worry about glass shards. Clarity is fine and yes it will scratch, but so will most glass.

dave

[Tomterrific]

I like jalousie windows because of the awning effect and the vintage nature of the design. I was given an old jalousie window that I rebuilt and was able to find a new window to duplicate on the other side. Cheap too, $59 retail. Search for shed or playhouse windows. I really don't see much appeal in the Willey design.

I built my own doors. Super cheap and easy. I cut out the square door from the side. I used 1x3 s around the edge of the door with about 3x4" overlapping the edge. The door was pushed into the hole in the side and 1x3s were attached around the border. Hinges were screwed to the 1x3s and a gutter was screwed over the top. The resulting labyrinth seal around the door keeps water out.

I know this construction is too crude for many but it has worked extremely well for a cheap, light and water tight trailer.

Tom

[daveesl77]

Awning or jalousie windows have been around forever and they work pretty well. Just another way of doing stuff.

dave

[rowerwet]

IMO, windows on a tear are mostly about ventilation. When I'm inside I am most likely sleeping, not an activity that requires much of a view.
The wiley is best for ventilation as it opens 100% with the glass out, and even in a driving rain will allow air in, but not water.
I set my windows low in the door, just an inch or two above the mattress. That way I can see out withoutsitting up, and in hot weather, with the glass out, the cooler air coming in flows right on me, no fans needed.
It is all about function over form and at the lowest possible price, with nothing to break.
I have no roof vent, vent fan, or battery. For me it's the correct answer.