So you want to be a welder?

[KCStudly]

That will be a great opportunity for you. I can tell from the brief "conversations" that we have had that you will make the most of it. Sounds like a great kick start to a technical career!

[LashleyT]

I would like to just tack weld a HF trailer kit together to insure a good ground on the frame. I was looking at a small 80 amp arc HF welder, but my shop only has a 30amp supply. Will this pop the breaker when used?

Thanks - Tom

[KCStudly]

The 80 amp rating is the power available at the arc. It should work fine on a 30 amp service, but has a 110 plug so will probably even work on a 15 amp circuit.

That's a pretty small welder. 35/ct duty cycle at 75 amp.

From my experience, the worst thing a novice welder can do is to try to learn on a poor quality machine. Do you have prior welding experience? (That may be a rhetorical question, because if you did, you probably wouldn't be looking at that welder!)

Full disclosure: I'm sure that lots of people have managed to get good results on certain projects using that welder, and I am fortunate to have lots of welding experience using quality industrial equipment. But I have also used those little wimpy units a time or two, and I stand by my position: avoid them. Maybe I'm just too old school, but if you want to take up welding and you are tight on budget you should be looking for an older buzz box. Here's an example in MI http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/tls/4751296041.html

[LashleyT]

Thanks KC
No never struck an arc in my life and I am on a retirees budget..

[dales133]

I used to weld everyday for a living in my late teens early 20 and couldn't agree more with KC that a low amp cheap welder will do you no favors at all.
I got a Chinese made inverter mig with European Moffet cards and built to high specs and it's never let me down at all.
My point being even the very basic big name brand welders can be a waste of time and money ....shop around.
I got mine on ebay with a remote wire feed and all the gizmos for 600 aussie with is a steal so do your home work first

[Kaz]

I know it's an old subject but : For all the beginner's or any one afraid to jump in on welding there isn't an easier machine to learn is the hobart140 mig . Go ahead and burn through a few rolls of flux core and practice on any scrap you can find. Then go ahead and buy a harbor freight auto darkening helmet and a big spool of solid welding wire(it works fine..REALLY!)and a cart for your new mig. . Then on your way stop and get a 60# bottle of gas. Now your up around $600.00 but well worth the money! You will learn something and accomplish something, many thing's because you will always find another use for that welder.

[Dale M.]

I know it's an old subject but : For all the beginner's or any one afraid to jump in on welding there isn't an easier machine to learn is the hobart140 mig . Go ahead and burn through a few rolls of flux core and practice on any scrap you can find. Then go ahead and buy a harbor freight auto darkening helmet and a big spool of solid welding wire(it works fine..REALLY!)and a cart for your new mig. . Then on your way stop and get a 60# bottle of gas. Now your up around $600.00 but well worth the money! You will learn something and accomplish something, many thing's because you will always find another use for that welder.

YES!... HH 140 is awesome machine (I have one) for smaller unit and low production work.... Limits out to about 1/4 material so should be able to do most welding duties in trailer builds...

Dale

[kitecop]

I have lincoln 135amp mig. I pretty much use flux wire through it exclusively but i can use mig wire and shielding gas. Flux wire actually allows you to weld thicker material that mig wire w gas. The welds w have splatter but its much cheaper that using shielding gas.

One thing to remember about a welder is that eventually, it will pay for itself 100 times over. So i would go for the $500 machines vs the HF stuff. Ive had mine for about 15yrs and put atleast 30lbs of wire through it and its just getting broken in. Also the cheap machines dont have very high duty cycles so longer passes can be an issue especially back to back.

I just got a Everlast inverter Tig machine but have not tried it out. There are lots of good reviews on these so if you want the capability to do aluminum and stainless as well you may want to go Tig right off the bat. For that you will be in the $1200 range at minimum and $3k for a miller or lincoln setup. There are some pretty sweet spool guns out there that allow u to weld aluminum with a mig welder u just have to use pure argon shielding gas. I have tried one out that a mobile welder had and it was as easy as using a caulking gun, it blew my mind.

[cryptojones]

My company is offering a MIG welding class, can I use the principals learned there to do stick welding?

[KCStudly]

Some welding techniques are "universal" across various types of welding (Stick, TIG, MIG and gas, to name the most common), so there would certainly be a benefit to taking a MIG course for the first time welder. However, stick welding is quite a bit different from MIG welding in several big ways, so a complete novice would probably want to study/practice both techniques.

The first couple of things that come to mind are:
1. MIG offers high visibility and is cleaner; whereas stick is flux shielded. With stick you weld more by feel and have to chip the flux "crust" off afterwards.
2. With MIG you don't have to advance the filler as you travel, the wire feeder does that for you; whereas with stick you have to feed the rod by hand as you travel. Again, this is sort of by feel.
3. MIG is much easier to initiate an arc, just pull the trigger and point; whereas with stick you need to learn how to do a scratch (or poke) start. Some varieties of filler rod are more finicky than others and can be a pain to start.
4. SAFETY! With MIG, once you let go of the trigger the current is shut off; whereas with stick the stinger is always live whenever the welder is turned on, so you have to be careful where you lay the stinger down, otherwise you can inadvertently strike an arc.

I'm sure there are many more differences, but these are the key difference in technique that I can think of off the top of my head.

[Homebrewer25]

For those of you who are looking for the two Lincoln Electric documents linked to in G-Force's first posts, I have found them.

Stick Electrode Welding Guide
Welding Consumables (formerly Stick Electrode product catalog)

Hope this helps,

[DrewsBrews]

Ive got very little experience with my metal squirt gun, but Ive tried to educate myself as much as I can to prevent falling into some newb traps while fabricating my trailer frame.

Some tips I found useful..

All welds will cause some sort of distortion. As the weld cools it shrinks and pulls the pieces, as if the weld is a hinge, towards the side the weld is on. It is an impressively powerful force. On small parts with small welds it doesn't tend to be very noticeable, but when using long pieces like rails for a trailer frame this can pull the whole thing out of whack permanently if not caught and remedied early enough in the build.
There are many techniques to combat this. A few basic ones:
-Clamping and bracing to hold things in place is step one toward reducing distortion. Tack welds can help hold in areas where clamping just isn't possible.
-Weld small areas at a time then move on to the opposite side. This can help to lock the piece in place before too much movement can happen and balance out the forces better.
-Limit weld size to only what is reasonably needed. If a few 1" welds will hold for the max expected force with enough overhead, then doing a whole 12" long weld really isn't gaining much besides a bunch of extra distortion.

It is tempting for us newbs to weld all around the perimeter of a joint to be sure it is as strong as possible.. But, for the typical thickness of material trailers use this can be detrimental... Concentrating too much stress in a small area. Welds are brittle compared to the surrounding metal. This can lead to cracking; compromising the strength of the frame depending on the orientation of the weld. This is one of those cases where less can be more.

Welds across a frame member are not ideal. Do what you can to orient welds running lengthwise with a main frame member. If you must weld across, then limit the weld to only the bead length needed and stay away from the edge of the frame member so it does not seed a crack at the edge.

Plug welds can be useful to tie flat sections together. My frame was originally a harbor freight kit that I redesigned for a 5x10 trailer. The kit is primarily compromised of two slightly different size cold rolled C-channels. One can fit inside the other. On a few joints I ran them both in the same orientation "spooning" if you will, and welded the top and bottom edges (the tips of the C), but there would have been no other surface to weld besides the end cuts.. which I didn't want to do. So before hand I drilled some half inch holes on the back flat of the smaller C channel. That way I could weld into the flat of the outer piece. Circles being less prone to forming cracks. The outer C channel is also slightly thicker, hence drilling the holes in the thinner material which naturally would aim the gun (and more heat) into the thicker metal.


In hindsight, even this may have been overkill.

If there is anything I'm way off base on. Let me know. Im definitely still learning, and don't want to steer others astray.