7.5x20 Wells Cargo

[iambucket]

Hey all,

I'm from WA and just moved temporarily to my Aunt's in IN because she is graciously letting me using her driveway to convert something to on the road living. That something just presented itself on Craigslist:



A well-preserved 1996 Wells Cargo 20x7.5 at a good price

I picked it up yesterday. I was lucky to find this trailer in great condition at about 1/3 of what a new one would cost. He even had installed lights, plugs, a fuze box, a heater/ac, and a shore plug.

I was really happy to find it, but now I'm wondering if I went too big. 7.5 by 20 will be plenty comfortable, but the whole reason we do this is to forgo comfort for freedom. I'm wondering if my freedom is going to be restricted by hauling around a 20 foot house. I'm thinking I should have looked for 7x16.

I'm still excited to do this. I've just had this voice in my head not necessarily telling me I should go smaller but wondering. I see a lot of you fixing up 12 footers and being very happy with it.

On another note, very happy to find this forum and I'll be posting updates as they come. I find it really helpful to see what you're all doing on here.

Peace,
Dan

[CoventryKid]

Welcome to the forum!!

That's quite the find. I'm sure lots of us here will be watching with great interest.

Do you have any floor plans you can share??

[iambucket]

I was thinking about a garage in back with a door in the partition. The bed in front on cabinets which contain the holding tanks (and thus most likely the sink nearby). That's all I've got so far. I'll post it when I have a better idea.

[flboy]

Nice find. What will you haul it with?

[mrwall1]

Nice!! plenty of room.... I look at my 16' and wish I would of bought the 18'!!! im sure it will work out great!! What part of Washington?

[McDave]

Wow! That's a lot of trailer, but if the price is right and you can tow it, why not? I have second guessed myself many times over not going bigger, but mostly taller would be nice. I didn't really start out to do a conversion, but things change.
Well, excellent start! Keep us posted. With that much room and the equipment already on board, you should end up with something really nice. Congratulations. ...

McDave

[iambucket]

I currently have a Chevy Colorado with tow package rated at 7000# towing capacity. I think this will be working it hard (well below max weight but there are other factors such as non-aerodynamic build of travel trailer, midsize truck, mountains). This is another reason I'm wondering if I went too big.

I was up in Bellingham before moving to Indiana. Not sure exactly where I'd go back because I work for state parks and it depends where I get a job. I hope to stay on the west side though.

I agree with the importance of height. I stepped into a 7x16 to get an idea (it was new and actually twice as much as my used 7.5x18) and thought it 'd be very doable if it had an extra 6 inches.

[iambucket]

Hey y'all,

I dropped out for a bit because I needed to figure some stuff out. Here's where I'm at:

I actually have a '15 Chevy Colorado 3.6 with towing package (rated @ 7,000#). At the time I got the trailer, I thought it was all about weight. I wasn't thinking about aerodynamics (8.5 tall by 7.5 wide BOX). I wasn't thinking about having to get it over the Rockies and the Cascades to get back home. I just thought 3,000# trailer, no problem!....There's more to it - I learned REAL fast

I started looking around and was thinking about trading for a used F150. I said that was my pull because at the time I thought that was going to happen. But after doing some more research, I found the general consensus was that for something of that size (and more importantly, with that much drag), while a 1/2 ton would work, a 3/4 would be better. Of course there are outliers on both ends. There were some people saying they did a 24' cargo with their midsize. There were some saying they like to use a full ton diesel for their 16'. But the average feedback was a 1/2 ton works but a 3/4 feels so much more up to the job.

Now I'm a safe person when it comes to physical danger. I’ll take risks in other areas, but not there. I’m the type that would like to use a 3/4 for pulling a cargo of that size. But this is starting to stray from my objective: Simplify my life to gain freedom. Also, learn to be less dependent on non-renewable resources that I have to pay other people to provide for me (like fuel). Forgo comforts (big trailer and truck) to gain mobility.

Ultimately, I want to use this trailer as a means of traveling to different sustainable communities. Once I arrive there, I will still use my trailer as a place for me and my two cats to sleep, but I will be able to use the community’s amenities for other things. I want to have a means of preparing food, sleeping, and housing a composting toilet in my trailer for interim periods between communities, but I don’t need to plan on doing those things in my trailer full-time. It got too big. A 20 foot trailer and 3/4 ton truck is not only overkill, but goes against why I originally wanted to do this.

So now I’m thinking I should size down. Maybe I should still get a 1/2 to satisfy my desire to have a big safety cushion, but I don’t need a 3/4. As for the trailer, I marked off some different dimensions in my current 20 footer and I think 7x14 is good (plus a camper that is the width and length of my truck bed and height up to the roof for more storage).

So that’s where I’m at right now. Thank you for all the feedback you’ve given thus far. I haven’t lost any determination to do this but I’d like to trade in some comfort for more mobility and feeling safer. I think the 20 footer I got was a great find if that’s what I was looking for. My lesson was to not let “a great find” trump “what I’m looking for.” I know there’s learning curve to figuring this out so this was the first of many. I know I’ll look back at it with gratitude for what it revealed.

[Iconfabul8]

Nothing wrong with finding a good deal and making a few bucks on it. Good luck!

[hankaye]

iambucket, Howdy;

Good-on-ya mate, as some of my friends might say. A wise man knows the difference between
"want" and "need". There are a lot of folks that love the argument that "What I have will "Pull"
the trailer, they fail to recognise that it may not stop the trailer very well. Like the commercial
showing the small pick-up pulling the Space Shuttle, sure it got it rolling but can it stop it?????

Wish you the best of luck in selling the big'un and finding a good (for you), sized ct and pick-up.

hank

[flboy]

I think you are making a good decision. Best of luck to you.

[McDave]

Well, that is a lot of trailer. I didn't realize it was 8.5' tall inside. That's about the size of a real house or apt. these days.
I 'm not sure you need more than 7'-7.5' unless you play for the NBA. My trailer is 6x12x6 and it works for me but my noodle is right at the ceiling. I find myself slouching if I'm standing up in there for a while. An extra 6"-12" would be fantastic, but I'll just have to tough it out. Once the construction is over and trailer is "in use" it won't be a problem, I mostly just sleep and shower in there.
So, yes a smaller trailer would probably be more appropriate for the lifestyle you described, but if you are average sized male 6' 200lbs, a little headroom will make a big difference.
I'm not sure about letting the Chevy go. I just took a look at them and I must say that 3.6 has come a long ways. 305 hp @ 6800 rpm is very impressive. The Ford 3.5 Twin turbo is 385 hp, but turbos,...just sayin.. If you were towing a 7x14, I think the Chevy would be fine. That removes one layer of complexity to your goal. Now you just need to swap the trailer. Since you haven't started the conversion process you won't really be out anything.' You definitely picked the right time to re- think this thing. I know that there are people looking for bigger trailers, so getting rid of the 20' should be no problem. In fact, PaulzOx recently stated his family was expanding and he may need a bigger one soon. Might be an opportunity for both of you? Check out his build page, viewtopic.php?f=42&t=66048
Anyways, just keep your eyes on the prize and you'll achieve your goal. Good Luck!

McDave

[m.colley]

As McDave said, you found out in time. Like you've found out weight isn't the only determining factor, drag is just as important if not more important. My 1/2t Chevy with its 4.3L struggles going uphill and I'm nowhere near the 7000# capacity my trailer can max out at. Matter of fact thats one of the first tests I did with it before I started my build. I loaded it with the things I'd normally carry and hooked it up. The drag, especially with a headwind makes it tough and the truck struggles going up some mild hilly roads.
My future upgrade truck has been narrowed down to one of two. A 2017 Tundra SR5 4x4 with tow package that will pull 9800# and runs a 4.30 gear OR a Ram 2500 4x4 w/ 6.4 hemi w/tow package that'll pull a 12000+ lbs with a 3.92 gear.

Since the CTC isn't the only thing I pull heavy I'll get my use out of either choice..


Martin

[iambucket]

McDave, I meant it was 8.5 external height (probably under 8 but that includes the air conditioner). It is 6.5' inside and after going in some 6' evens illustrated that it would be very doable to go cut off a half food wide and 6 foot long but the extra half above is really appreciated. 8.5 would be luxurious but crazy drag.

m.colley, I'm glad I figured this out before going over the mountains. Good for you for testing the pull before you start building. Towing is something I'd never thought about before but it goes hand in hand with the lifestyle for sure. (As do trucks!) I don't know about Tundras but that Ram would be a formidable tow. What are the dimensions of yours? Is it cargo?

[working on it]

• I think this thread is beneficial to all who want bigger trailers, but also need to realize that bigger trailers need more capable tow vehicles. I've been known to overload my trailers, sometimes where the tow vehicle strains under the load, and the movements of the trailer dictated what the tow vehicle felt, as a result."Tail wagging the dog".
• I had low budgets, and had to make do with what I had, until I could address the problems. Using progressively heavier trucks, with progressively stronger engines, and steeper gearing, made towing easier and safer. The addition of a Weight Distributing hitch, and sway control, made everything that much better. Eventually, I bought a truck better suited for towing my race car and heavy trailer, so now, having only a TTT to tow (no more racing for me), the tow truck's capabilities far exceed the tasks it faces, even with my now 2000 lb tiny 4x8.
• I originally thought that horsepower was everything, since the old car advertisements bragged on it. But, racing, and even moreso, towing, educated me on torque being the prime mover to get a load rolling. At first, in dragracing, I focused on making more hp for the finish line, but moving my heavy street cars off the line, without enough "grunt", put me at a disadvantage oftentimes. So, I learned to give up a little hp, to gain torque, and did better. Gearing and traction are very important, too, but torque starts everything moving.
• Back to towing, the same principles hold forth, where torque is still king, gearing is second, and weight and weight distribution are no small players. Old hands at towing warned me about too heavy a load, "tail vs dog" syndrome, and some mentioned a 80% rule-leaving 20% of your maximum vehicle+load rating as a safety factor-only tow at 80%. Others warned me about my trucks weighing much less than the total load, and that a WD hitch would help. I listened, learned, and use my WD on everything (I rely on it).
• I read here about some smaller displacement engines being expected to haul larger trailers, because they are rated to tow the approximate weight, and have the hp numbers that should manage the feat, but their torque numbers belie that ability. For instance, one gentleman's 3.6l engine produces 305 hp, but only makes 269 ft.lbs. of torque. To pull a heavy trailer, especially one with greater frontal dimensions (a lot of wind resistance and drag to overcome), more torque is really needed to manage it. Once moving, on flat terrain, perhaps with the wind behind you, the 305 hp will do the job quite easily (and with better gas mileage than my 6.0l guzzler).Here's a comparison I made of horsepower and torque ratings of some engines I was familiar with, and why they needed improvements and gearing help, to do what I wanted:

• 

  ANALYSIS OF HP VS. TORQUE FOR TOWING.png (143.27 KiB) Viewed 3257 times

  not shown are what engines I replaced these with, or new gearing
• It's good to see people discussing these matters on the forum, with everybody adding to the conversation. I hope the younger guys can avoid making the mistakes in towing as I did, but my path has always been thru self-made difficulties. And it continues....