Made in China

[Chris C]

When I had my plastic manufacturing plant, the Union tried to organize my workers. Every last one of my employees ushered the "gentleman" out the back gate and "suggested" he never return. I had really good employees.

[Joseph]

When I had my plastic manufacturing plant, the Union tried to organize my workers. Every last one of my employees ushered the "gentleman" out the back gate and "suggested" he never return.

When I bagged groceries for Alpha-Beta supermarket back in the '70s, I had to join the Retail Clerk's Union. As a union member, I got a week of paid vacation every year, for which I paid dues totalling two weeks pay.

"Tell ya what, guys - lemme outta the union and I'll take two weeks vacation on my own dime!"

Needless to say, they didn't buy it.

Joseph

[Ira]

So the great state that manufacturing is now in is because the unions got too strong? I'm trying to understand the logic.

Since they busted all of the unions, how come we have no manufacturing at all in the states these days? Shouldn't we have MORE then?

It was the unions who fought this outsourcing to overseas plants, trying to protect American jobs and livable salaries.

What a TERRIBLE concept, huh?

[Joseph]

So the great state that manufacturing is now in is because the unions got too strong? I'm trying to understand the logic.
Since they busted all of the unions, how come we have no manufacturing at all in the states these days? Shouldn't we have MORE then?

Excuse me, what unions have been "busted?" Last I checked, the AFL-CIO was alive and well, though I believe their numbers are on the decline.

It was the unions who fought this outsourcing to overseas plants, trying to protect American jobs and livable salaries.

No. I'll say it again - it was the unions who kept pushing for higher and higher pay with no accompanying increase in productivity that priced their workers out of the market.

Joseph

[Ira]

What unions have been busted? What unions are still ALIVE?

And for states to enact "Right to work" legislation, making it permissible to fire people for union activity?

The proof is in the pudding:

Salaries now stink, there's no job security, no pensions, lousy health insurance, and they're manufacturing everything overseas ANYWAY.

It was better THEN, and to say otherwise is just based on personal political leanings and not the obvious results of today's reality.

Why, it's like saying that if we all owned guns, we would have LESS murders in this country!

Ooops, sorry--we've been down THAT road before.

[Joseph]

What unions have been busted? What unions are still ALIVE?

As I said - the AFL-CIO for starters. There are any number of unions here in Virgina that are well and active, at least if the bumper stickers and signs I see in yards at election time are any indication. So quit dodging the question - which unions have been busted?

And for states to enact "Right to work" legislation, making it permissible to fire people for union activity?

Cite me one example whre this happened. Just one name that I can look up. Joe Hill doesn't count.

The proof is in the pudding: Salaries now stink, there's no job security, no pensions, lousy health insurance, and they're manufacturing everything overseas ANYWAY. It was better THEN, and to say otherwise is just based on personal political leanings and not the obvious results of today's reality.

It may be worse for any number of reasons, but by the same token, to say that it was better BECAUSE of the unions is to deny reality for those same, biased political reasons.

Why, it's like saying that if we all owned guns, we would have LESS murders in this country!

That's already been proven in states with "shall issue" Concealed Carry Permits as opposed to states and cities with oppressive gun control.

Ooops, sorry--we've been down THAT road before.

And here we go again!

Joseph

[Boodro]

Joe , just a thought here on unions & corp.s that send work out of this country.

Is it fair to expect a worker to never get a fair raise while working? While at the same time the company is charging more for its products , & making more profits for the top cats to take home in their stock options & pay offs ., etc.?

Just look at oil for a minute . The profits are higher than the space shuttle !
Do you think the workers that get the product or refine the product deserve a fair share of those RECORD profits? Or should billions of dollars just go to the CEO's & CFO'S ??

Look at the real estate bussiness. The land we buy doe snever( or hardly ever ) depreciate , it seems to ALWAYS be rising in price . Yet are the realestate workers enjoy a fair portion of that profit??

I know there are a lot more examples to both sides of this issue & I hope that we can all have good discussion on this.

Just some food for thought. Ya'll be cool!

[asianflava]

I was applying for a job at an engine manufacturer one time. I was able to contact an alumnus of my school to get the poop on the situation. I asked him why they were moving their manufacturing form Ohio to North Carolina. He said that the unions were making it too expensive to operate in Ohio. They asked them to relax their demands or they were going to move the whole operation.

One problem the unions have is that their only recourse is to strike. The public sympathy for this has gone down the tubes. People who need jobs, will gladly jump the picket line.

[rampage]

So after killing the unions little by little, all of this manufacturing could eventually be done overseas.

Funny, I thought it was the unions pricing their workers out of the market that resulted in everything being sent overseas.

Joseph

Are you suggesting that we work below the wages of Chinese factory workers? You can be the first one. Make a fine example for the rest of us.

[remarquian]

Joseph

Are you suggesting that we work below the wages of Chinese factory workers? You can be the first one. Make a fine example for the rest of us.

You don't understand. What you loose in wages per hour [25 to 50 cent an hour] , you make up in number of hours worked!

rob

[CPASPARKS]

My father was a supervisor for a manufacturing plant here in Texas for 35 years. He went to work straight from the army after WWII. Worked the same job until he died in 1981.
I remember as a young kid when the "union organizers" came to his plant, he and others would expect physical violence to usher them off the premises.
My dad was never laid off or had cuts in pay...he always had a job. The owner of the company was good to all his employees and their families. They offered full scholarships to employees and their families. My college was completely paid for.
My dad had good health insurance coverage, retirement and job security.
I know that jobs without unions work. Come down to Texas and see how many companies are moving down here to do business because we are a "right to work" state.
No offense, but why do we pay big $$$$ for autos that don't last past the last car payment is paid off???

[Joseph]

Joe , just a thought here on unions & corp.s that send work out of this country.

OK, but Joe was my grandfather. My name's Joseph.

Is it fair to expect a worker to never get a fair raise while working? While at the same time the company is charging more for its products , & making more profits for the top cats to take home in their stock options & pay offs ., etc.?

Of course not. But raises are normally built into the system, and raises are usually earned by superior performance, not negotiated by unions. Unions negotiate entire pay scales, not individual raises.

A perfect example of this particular bit of disingenuousness is from the AFL-CIO's web page - "Minimum wage workers haven’t had a raise in nine years—and House leaders refuse to allow a vote. Tell your U.S. representative to bring the minimum wage increase to a vote." That implies that those working at minimum wage STAY at minimum wage and never get a raise unless Congress gives it to them. Nonsense.

Just look at oil for a minute . The profits are higher than the space shuttle ! Do you think the workers that get the product or refine the product deserve a fair share of those RECORD profits? Or should billions of dollars just go to the CEO's & CFO'S ??

The profits on a gallon of gas are approximately 10% and have been more or less constant throughout several decades. (Taxes on the other hand run about 25-40%, but nobody's hammering Congress or the State Legislatures about price gouging!!) The record profits are driven by an increase in consumption. Most of those billions of dollars go to the stockholders and rightly so: they risked their money to fund it all in the first place. If you want to share in Exxon's profits, buy Exxon stock!

Look at the real estate bussiness. The land we buy doe snever( or hardly ever ) depreciate , it seems to ALWAYS be rising in price . Yet are the realestate workers enjoy a fair portion of that profit??

What real estate workers? Nobody's making more real estate, you know - that's why it almost always appreciates! If you mean the sales people, damn right they deserve it and they get it! The people I know in real estate that are good at it make VERY good livings! An old high school friend of mine, Fran Vernon, built her own real estate business and lives in a part of Southern California where I couldn't even afford the taxes on a house, let alone a house! And more power to her - you GO girl!

Are you suggesting that we work below the wages of Chinese factory workers? You can be the first one. Make a fine example for the rest of us.

I already have a job. But remember the days we used to pay high school kids to do menial tasks? (I do - I was one of 'em!) Got them off the streets and gave them a chance to earn some money along with the REAL self esteem that comes from doing so. It also got a lot of things done that only illegal immigrants are doing today - lawns mowed, shops swept and mopped and something else you never see anymore (outside of New Jersey, where it's required by law) - your gas pumped, your oil checked and your windows washed. You can thank the minimum wage for putting an end to that.

Ira's right - those days were a lot better. And back then, the unions still served their original purpose of supporting the workers instead of being a bunch of political action committees.

Joseph

[Nitetimes]

There are three steels mills in this town and I'm not sure how many in Pittsburgh that are gone due mainly to the unions. Once you raise the wages beyond what the market for the product can bear the companies will either shut down or relocate, either way those minimum wage jobs get scarcer all the time.
So now all these people that were making $18+ an hour are maybe making $6 an hour but their mortgage and bills are geared for $18, now what do they do? Union really did them a big favor didn't they.
Never have and never will work for a union run company, I hate giving them money almost as much as I hate paying taxes!!

[Laredo]

"I hate giving them money almost as much as I hate paying taxes."

Hate paying taxes all you want but remember what your taxes pay for --
salaries and equipment for police, firefighters, restaurant inspectors, schools with books and desks and sound buildings and nurses and teachers and counselors and librarians and computer systems for your children, water for your house, sanitary sewer services and equipment for your town, decent roads ...

TANSTAAFL.

I live in a right to work state.
I see the jobs going over the border -- the jobs that used to be at the GM plant in Arlington are in GM plants in Mexico now, and that Arlington plant wasn't unionized; it's why they built in Texas in the first place.

If you look at what happens to the factory workers in sweatshops in NY and CA and Viet Nam and China and Houston, you'll see the need for unions too.

[Nitetimes]

"I hate giving them money almost as much as I hate paying taxes."

Hate paying taxes all you want but remember what your taxes pay for --
salaries and equipment for police, firefighters, restaurant inspectors, schools with books and desks and sound buildings and nurses and teachers and counselors and librarians and computer systems for your children, water for your house, sanitary sewer services and equipment for your town, decent roads ...

I don't have a problem with that stuff but it's all the other stuff it pays for that I object to.
The water for my house comes from my well and the refuse goes to the septic tank, otherwise you pay for that monthy around here not thru taxes and it's not cheap.
Decent roads???? You've never been to PA have you?
Don't have any kids so I shouldn't have to pay school taxes anyway, I payed my share when they were in school.
If we had parents we wouldn't need so many counselors.
Oh yeah, a piss poor, overly and easily abused welfare system.

But that's the way I look at it.