Itty Bitty Foamie Teardrop Test Build Thread

[S. Heisley]

If you can find a feed store, you might be able to pick up a horse syringe there. Best Wishes!

[ghcoe]

I thought you wanted a flame resistant paint/primer when I suggested the Childers. I did not realize you where planning to glue the canvas to the foam with it. Sorry!

I have tried the gluing of canvas with Gripper and was not very satisfied with the results so if I had known what your intent was I would have recommended to proceed with caution.

With that said I have had bubbles show up on my build where I forgot to wipe the surface down with alcohol. Lucky for me most of this is the lower inside portion of the hatch, but I have had a couple of bubbles form on the outside as well. I was able to repair the bubbles using a syringe and 50/50 TBII.


Not sure how extensive your delamination is, but I will describe how I repaired my bubbles in hopes it will give you ideas on how to fix your problem.

In my case I used a diabetic syringe and needle. Using the syringe needle I poked one hole along the outer edge of the bubble and then I poked another hole along the edge of the bubble opposite of the first hole. Then I filled the syringe with 50/50 TBII and maneuvered the needle to where I was able to inject the TBII between the foam and the canvas. I injected TBII until it began to come out the opposite hole. At that point I took my finger and lightly pushed the bubble in a attempt to squish the TBII to all edges of the bubble. At this time the bubble will collapse and more air and TBII will come out the two holes. I just dabbed up the extra TBII with a piece of paper towel. Once I performed the repair I could not find any indication of where the bubbles were when I came back later. Even the small holes in the canvas faded away.

Hope that helps and good luck, George.

[Don L.]

Any idea what the Childers is made of? Water based, oil, kind of solvent, PVA? I'm not familiar with it.

If it is like PVA (TB11 or such) it might be thermoplastic and get sticky again and re-adhere if you heat it with something like an iron. Just put something between the iron and the canvas that won't stick to either the iron or the paint. Baking parchment paper maybe?

[John61CT]

I thought Glidden Gripper was the bee's knees for both canvas and screening fabric which is what I plan to use for my large shell / heavy loads project?

Or is TBII stronger for just canvas?

I see mastic as a top-smoothing layer for eliminating mesh bumps, not the adhesive between foam and skin.

Which are the main threads to use to "start from scratch" educating myself on the material science side of things?

[Nodrog]

Well, John61, since you are already doing some pretty good frame of some kind for your heavy load, you are not going to be really light like an all foamy. So, why don't you just use a thin ply covered with a thin fabric for a skin, you could use glue or paint on it, either of which will stick to the ply like crazy. This is guaranteed more bombproof than anything over foam.
Amanda, sorry for your troubles with the childers, maybe you can peel the whole affected area and re-cover? Or, its probably latex? and can be spot glued with Gripper? Best wishes....Nodrog

[John61CT]

I'm looking for at least 3" insulation, so foam's there anyway, and I'm not clear yet on just how much metal I'll need for load support.

Definitely looking to minimize weight though, and with punctures from off-roading very likely I really like the bounce-back and easy repairability of the PMF skinning.

My next choice would be aluminum, but it's a distant second.

Not sure why, but I've a gut-level aversion to plywood, except maybe for aesthetic woody interior touches with a nice finish.

[GPW]

We tried gluing canvas on a section of the FoamStream with the Gripper , and that’s where we had that huge bubble .. Ironing didn’t work ( not like T2 does ) , so we just peeled back the whole length of canvas ,it’s not that difficult), then slobbered T2 everywhere ( careful to cover everything , smoothed it all back down , and that did it , four years now , no problems , and it has done some self healing in the sun ... knee marks when we modified the roof recently. All gone !!!

* We like ( JMHO)
T2 for canvas over Foam , or plywood, or chipboard . And we still really like the idea of perforating the foam surface FIRST with thousands of small "glue-nail" holes before gluing. For gluing canvas to Foam , it’s almost like applying wallpaper , BOTH surfaces should have glue applied , on the foam liberally to form all the little nail holes and thoroughly cover the surface, AND on the canvas too, because when it dries the canvas itself will soak up some of the glue and “starve" the area of glue where canvas and foam meet . In other words , use lots of T2 , apply it llberally and thoroughly … It only takes a little bit more glue to do it right! ... Don’t be stingy !!! you can easily wipe the excess away with a wet rag .

The Gripper , as a PRIMER , and for gluing flat sections of Foam to foam as in “laminating thinner sheets into a curve, although it can take several weeks to really dry and must be done over a shaped “form" of sorts … PIA!!! It’s really a Great primer ...

Use what you like !!! Doesn’t mean it’s going to work . Just consider it a "test” … valuable information learned...

John , we never had any punctures in that one , we did in the Jayco POS ( but that’s another story) , but any patching we've done so far is just either take off the old and put on the new , pretty easy , or stick a “band aid" patch on it and glue it down with T2 or the matching paint … real easy , and you can carry a small patch kit and some scrap fabric and do patches on the road ( if need be) in the leisure times …The heavier canvas( we used 18oz.) is pretty TOUGH stuff, we’ve seen stuff bounce off the FoamStream .
We did have some really bad hail on the Foamie #1 , but that healed itself in the summer Sun …. it looked like a Golf ball ...

[ghcoe]

In my reading there where a few builds that used, not just Gripper, but other latex based paints in the canvas to foam application. They seemed to have had a mixture of results from it worked great to it's peeling! There have been others who used latex paint to attach canvas over wood and they seem to have no issues with peeling or bubbles at all. This leads me to believe that latex paint has a issue with bonding to XPS foam.

What is weird to me though, is that I did not use Gripper to attach my canvas, but I did paint my entire first foamie with Gripper to help fair it out. Then I used TBII over the Gripper to glue the canvas on. I have had no issues with peeling or bubbles at all except where I mentioned that I forgot to clean the foam with alcohol before painting. Maybe the canvas absorbs too much of the paint in the drying process...

In my second build I chose to sand all surfaces along with wiping down the surfaces with alcohol before application of the canvas with TBII. Again no issues at all with peeling or bubbles as of yet.

I do not preshrink the canvas in my method and I do believe the TBII thinned down and use of water to keep things damp during the glue up makes a big difference. The water makes the canvas shrink as it is drying making a tight drum like surface which makes delamination difficult to start in the first place. Of course that is just my opinion.

[John61CT]

Are TBII and T2 the same?

And are there more or less "canonical" howto build threads y'all can link to for the various options, best of, summaries?

I'm happy to read thousands of pages taking notes if need be, but would like to start with the good stuff, and then fill in gaps or consider alternatives from the rest.

[ghcoe]

Are TBII and T2 the same?

And are there more or less "canonical" howto build threads y'all can link to for the various options, best of, summaries?

I'm happy to read thousands of pages taking notes if need be, but would like to start with the good stuff, and then fill in gaps or consider alternatives from the rest.

I may be bias, but you might read through my #1 build thread http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=54099 . I tried to detail my build step by step as best I could and there is not really too much fat, keeping it just at 50 pages. Even though there is a lot of good content in there, some of my build thoughts have changed and some even changed during the building documentation. If you have any questions feel free to ask in the thread. George.

[Don L.]

"Are TBII and T2 the same?" I think so.

[ghcoe]

"Are TBII and T2 the same?" I think so.

I think so. Not sure what else it would be in reference to.

[S. Heisley]

I believe TBII and T2 are both referring to TitebondII; but can't swear to it. It would be nice if they were spelled out or at least clarified.

[pchast]

I used Gripper for the canvas application.

I did a scuff sand of the foam, real quick w/ 60 grit on a random orbital.
I wiped down things with a rag. That was on the sides.
I used a wallpaper tool to perforate all the foam...
(I did not sand or clean the foam over the top.)

I painted gripper on the canvas laying on the floor of the garage.
I folded the canvas like it was wallpaper, paint to paint.
Only then did I roll gripper onto the foam.

The canvas was applied and smoothed out.

It stuck everywhere except on one larger area filled with
light weight Spackle. There I injected 50:50 TB2(tightbond II).
All is still good 6 or 7 trips and plenty of rain later.

[GPW]

Note : After typing Titebond Two here thousands of times it just got abbreviated to TBII , TB2 or just T2 … same for the “gripper” ( Glidden Gripper ) …

What we found gluing Foam together with the Gripper, coat both sides to ensure you have complete coverage ( Like PCH did ^ ) … then it sticks like crazy.

On the place where we re-glued canvas , we found that although the foam was liberally coated with the gripper and canvas smoothed on , the canvas itself had almost no gripper on it …

And consider this …. as some canvas or materials gets wet , it blocks air from coming through (waterboarding) … so as you smooth the canvas down into the glue , you have to make sure you smooth out any trapped air which forms the bubbles … the air might not escape through the weave , especially on the Heavier canvasses , or treated floor cloths ...