Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

[Mr. Lahey]

Been winning a few and losing a few here the past couple days. I've got both struts mounted. Turns out the 115# struts I guessed at, are way way too powerful. One strut alone was lifting the hatch by itself 95% of the way. A slight touch with your finger and it was full raised. Plus it took a good tug to get it come down. I just guessed at strut power from going by what others have stated they used. I knew I was most likely going to have to swap them out to get them right. I did make sure that multiple pressures were available in the exact dimension struts I used before I picked these.

Another thing I noticed is that the struts keep pushing back through their whole travel from open to close. Some people have stated that at a point near closing the struts begin to help with shutting the hatch. No way with mine. As a matter of fact they get tougher to push down the further down I close the hatch. My first guess is it's partly because of how ridiculously over powered they are. I am fairly certain the geometry is right as the strut travels.

Since the cabin ceiling is not in, or galley cabinets in, I can see into the strut area. They move/travel fine with no binding, or hitting any thing. The have a slight downward angle to them when the hatch is closed. At full open they have some forward angle and are not full vertical. The hatch hinge works smooth as can be too. I do need to lift the hatch very high to get headroom at the low point. At full required lift height the hatch piano hinge is just short being at a 90 degrees from it's closed position.

My setup stacks up like this:

Hatch width" 62"
Hatch length: 53"
Strut to hatch attach point, from hinge center line: 22.5"
Strut to hath attach point, down from hatch surface: 3"
Strut full extend length: 27"
Strut full closed length: 15.5"
Strut full closed position, distance between wall and hatch mount points: 16.25"

Plus just now I cobbled up a platform to set my bathroom scale on . With the hatch somewhat level ( hard to tell when comparing to a curved surface) or aprox halfway through its travel, I get 44.5# with a stick from the hatch strut attach mount ball to the scale.

Below are a couple pic's of dry fit up. For now all brackets are just screwed in place. The can be moved if required. I also found I had room to space the lower mount from the wall by 3/8" and still clear my galley cabinet door. I did so to get the strut straighter. The struts do operate at a slight left to right angle due to hatch mount bracket thickness, location on inside hatch rail, and so forth. It's not much of an angle and well within the limits of the travel of the strut ball mounts. I do not have any kind of bind at mounts.

I realize that I have such low mount point weight because of how far away from the hinge the hatch mount point is. However I also want enough strut lift power to keep the hatch solid open on a windy day. So my guess is to order a set of 50# and 60# struts. Return which ever does not work. Please feel free to chime in with your thoughts on what to order, and why. Round trip strut shipping is $20 a pop. So I'm going to place another $20 bet on the strut roulette wheel and see how I do. That's the reason for ordering 2 different lift pressures this time. Same $20 bet to get both sets here. I have not placed an order yet for replacement struts. Look forward to any input on what choices to make.

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[Homebrewer25]

I'm certainly no expert and have never mounted gas struts, but the gas strut calculator spreadsheet says different. Many people say it worked exactly right when it came time for them to mount their struts.

Using 53" as the overall hatch length, 11.5" as the stroke length, 22.5" as the spring attachment to hinge center point, and 44.5 as hatch dead weight it shows a strut force of 29 lbs.

IF this is correct (someone please double check me) then I'd order a set of 30#, but if you want to order 2 and return 1, I'd get 30# and 40#.

[lincolnlerner]

My first concern is wind ripping into the open hatch and stressing the hinge as well as the other parts.

As for the mounts give me a few moments.

[lincolnlerner]

Does your hatch weigh 33 pounds? Are the struts opening a bit near the end of the close? the stresses on the parts depends a lot on where they are mounted. Mount closer to the ends and less force is needed. I assume the struts are strong enough to max out their travel or are limited by the hinge. Putting force on it. I assume the struts are able to hold the hatch from blowing open further?

[Mr. Lahey]

Well it might be time for a broomstick hatch support. I got this first set of struts off eBay. I emailed seller and he is saying that once installed struts are now "used" and he can't sell as new. His return policy does not state that. Just says returns accepted within 30 days. So I sent them back to him. Plus notified ebay and paypal of the return. So that's hassle #1.

Hassle#2 is the local auto parts stores offer struts that are twice the price and just a tad not right in length or force. So not to thrilled about that way either.
Found another online source that is reasonable price like the first set I bought. However shipping will be on me both ways, if I need to exchange or return.

I'm going to work on a different part of the project for a while, and think over what I'm going to do here with this hatch support stuff.
Thanks for the input on the struts guys. I may still pursue the gas setup. Just had my fill of it for a bit right now.

[Jordan87]

Did you try McMaster?

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[Mr. Lahey]

Once some of the frustration wore off, I looked more online for more gas struts. I did try McMaster, thanks for that tip, but did not have what I wanted. Found another supplier with large selection of several struts of the right specs. So I called them first about return policy. They assured me no hassle exchanges. Just how it goes with these things. Their price was higher but they had a free shipping special. That brought them within a buck or two of competitors price after shipping.

So I ordered a pair of 30lb struts. Homebrewer ran my spec's for me on the sites strut calculator. Thanks for that as I do not have a spreadsheet program on my laptop to use that calculator with. So we shall see how it goes this time. I still have some free return shipping thru PayPal. So if some returns are required, to get this right, so be it.

In other news just kind of half hearted worked on filling staples holes in the hatch and sanding it. I've got to pick up the pace. I can feel the short Wisconsin summer starting to wind down. Before you know it I'll have to shut it down for the season.

[Homebrewer25]

I wish someone else had confirmed my spreadsheet results before you made a purchase, but hopefully they were correct and will work out for you.

[Mr. Lahey]

No worries guy. It will all work out. Return required or not.
It has to be better than me just guessing like I did the first time.

[breb]

I had to shorten our VK ( taking care of Pop's) and i'm back home. I wandered out to the TD but think we are headed to Maxwell street days in Mukwonago. Very temped to start where I left off. It will most likely be tomorrow or even Monday. Thought I would have ordered some thing's for the TD while I was on VK but that didn't happen either . Mostly working on projects that need attention . Next year maybe I'll stay home for VK. looks like you are playing games with this gas strut process. Hope you finally have what you need.

[Mr. Lahey]

Well even if you had to cut your vacation short hope you got some good R&R in. You'll work on your camper again when you feel like it. Sometimes I forget this thing is a hobby, not my job.

Still fooling with the struts. The 30# units turned out to be way too light. I appreciate the help from the forum here for running the calculations. I think because mine mount in a very different location from what that calculator was geared for, it was not the right setup for me.

Grumpy guy strut seller from ebay refunded me after all for that first set I bought. So all he did was lose my repeat business. No big deal. I've got a new strut supplier who has no problem with returns. They ship to me for free. PayPal pays for return shipping. So that works out okay.

So now I know whats too much strut and too little strut pressure. Maybe this time my WAG as to what they should be, will be helped along by what I now know. I also realized I needed to allow for the hatch gaining a few pounds too. I still have to it add canvas and glue outer skin, 3-4 coats of paint, hatch lock bolts and T handle, wiring, galley light, and 4 tail lights. I've reordered a set of 60# and 70# struts and hope one or the other does it this time.

Been doing a lot of sanding in the galley. I wanted the look of the fir plywood. Problem is the stuff is splinter and sliver prone. So I've got a bit of time in sanding to minimize that. Also did the fussy detail work to the galley cabinet doors that wanted to curl up. They now have oak stiffener braces glued to them. I also added plywood blocks behind the hinge and latch screw areas. I can now get some nice size screws in the hardware.

Built a shelf and cubbies in the center galley cabinet. My camp dishes, cups, bowls, and fry pans all stowed away real neat in that cabinet. All that gear will just stay in the camper. Less to pack when it's time to roll. Stained the lower galley cabinet while it's out of the galley. Should get it's first coat of polyurethane tomorrow.

3-4 days until the replacement struts get here. 3rd times a charm? We shall see.

[breb]

Wasn't very productive today. I ordered the sheet of Laminate for the counter top from Menards this morning. Came back and cut a piece of 1/2 ply for counter top and set it in place. Then put a couple of coats of finish on a trim piece . Still planing the finial version of the counter top which will not be straight across the width of TD. I will have to bump up a bit for a 12 volt fridge on one end to accommodate the height. So it looks like a 2- tier counter. Thinking about the space under the upper cabinets and down to the top of the counter top . Stared at that for awhile , kinda fell into a trance or maybe I fell asleep , not sure. I know for sure I need some more 3/4 ply for partition's . I want to tie drawer slides into those partitions and I want a little thicker ply for that, plus they support the counter. Tomorrow's another day . I'll pick up some ply and see if I can't get the counter figured out. I find the same thing when i Use fir ply and try to get a good edge face. Especially if there are voids involved in the material . Sounds like your doubling from the original 30# strut to 60 or 70# . Do you have any idea what the wait of the hatch is right now?

[Mr. Lahey]

I have not had the hatch off since it was built. So no way to weigh it loose. My 60-70# strut guess this time is based on how it felt to lift it with the two 30# struts installed. The 30# ones gave some help on the way up, but could not hold it up or full open.

Not much progress here either. Yet did a lot of work. The garage was a huge mess again. So was the camper. Sawdust, cutoff scraps, screws, staples, tools and what not everywhere. So I rolled the camper outside and the girlfriend and I cleaned and straightened it all up. Once again the big shop fan saved the day. Kept it tolerable while we worked. Cleaned out and blew out the camper too. Then rolled it back into place. So it's way better to work in there again.

Other than that got the first coat of poly on the lower galley cabinet. Sanded it smooth the next day. Will 2nd coat it today after work.

Not a lot of picture worthy progress these past few days. I am happy with the little galley cabinet shelf/cubbies
and how they worked out. So a pic of that below. That's about it here.

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[breb]

Some times getting things back in order is the bigger success or initiator to the next step. In my process I will take and wrap up tools and restore them to there rightful spot even if I have to bring them out again. Yea I know that sounds like a big waste of time but it was so integrated in my work a day life. It was the only way for me to be efficient and productive. By five in the afternoon the other half is coming home and that is time to restore everything in garage so it can be bypassed to enter the house. The floor gets a once over. I usually have the vac handy and ready for the tear to be cleaned where I've been working. I hit a snag yesterday. I had planned on a specific 12v fridge to buy/use and have been aiming for the build to incorporate that product. Looked at those measurements so many times but when it got down to the nitty gritty Yesterday , from all the measurements of the outside of the fridge and the measurements of the space I wanted to put it in, It wasn't going to happen.

It took awhile and had my boohoo moment. Then went on a online search and found my second choice was going to fit so up and onward. This was all about getting the hatch closed at that point of the build. Which I've haven't started but could plainly see there wasn't any room for the hatch material when closed. Your cabinets look good and I'm envious , your already packed. I'll post a pic later when I get closer to having more of this lower done . The laminate doesn't come till next week Monday or I should say I have to pick it up. Hopefully that all goes as planned.

[Mr. Lahey]

Too bad about fitting your fridge. Glad something will work out for you. Working on these is a challenge in inches alright.

My tear is 10ft. and my tough spot was the whole front to back stack up. I wanted the battery in front headboard cabinet for tongue weight help, then the mattress, rear bulkhead thickness, and finally the ice chest in galley. In order to get that to fit the battery had to be raised into the fat part of the front curve of the tear, and the ice chest handle just clears a hatch rib when the hatch closes.

To fit all that I had to steal 1.5 inches of mattress floor space. My mattress space is 78.5" and not 80". I have measured a few mattresses and think I will be alright. Few measured 80" and most were short of 80". However I may have to rely on some mattress "squish" when it goes together.

Yeah that cabinet isn't packed quite yet. I just had that camp gear out to help space and place the cubby partitions. That's all going to come out and then the sand, stain, and finish work done to the cabinet and dividers.

Got a second coat of poly on the lower cabinet. This Fir plywood seems to drink the stuff up. May take 3 coats to look great. Going to take a peek at it before I go to work today and decide if I'm going for coat #3 after work again today.