Upgrading tires on Northern Tool trailer

[dsotto]

We've finished our tear! (Yay!) And are looking to upgrade the stock 12" tires on our 4x8 trailer. We have a couple options in mind but when I called NT asking about size they said for liability reasons not to change them. Well it's way less safe doing a 2000 Mile road trip on those tires. Has anyone upgraded to 13" tires on that trailer successfully?

Our options- The Kenda carrier star tire from NT 13" 4 hole for around $80 each
-the 13" 4 hole rim for $40 from NT and Goodyear marathon tires for $62/each.
I'm assuming 13" would fit on the axle but I've learned in this project to not assume so wanted to see if anyone was successful. I searched past threads but didn't see anything specific.

Thanks!

Finally able to post s completed picture!

[Sparksalot]

Changing the tire/wheel size will mean confirming clearances to the fenders and the frame (behind the wheel). Other than that, the slower wheel RPM ought to mean better life of bearings and such.

[dsotto]

Changing the tire/wheel size will mean confirming clearances to the fenders and the frame (behind the wheel). Other than that, the slower wheel RPM ought to mean better life of bearings and such.

I'm not worried about the fenders as I was going to replace them eventually and probably mount them directly in the sidewall. I'll have to figure out how to find clearance with the frame. Would just testing it be the best way?

[Sparksalot]

Probably so. that's what I ended up doing at first.

About a year ago, I added wheel spacers to push the tires out to fill the fenders better. They're not expensive, but you will find varying and often strong opinions on there use.

[jered]

$200 custom 2000# torsion axle and $200 in RV surplus yard new tires and wheels. More pricey than what you mentioned but solid!

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[dsotto]

$200 custom 2000# torsion axle and $200 in RV surplus yard new tires and wheels. More pricey than what you mentioned but solid!

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I don't really want to replace the axle if it's not needed. Our total weight is 800. But I definitely want better tires for highway use.
Id spend that money on a better axle if I actually knew what it would benefit. We just finished so I'm not looking to tackle that big of a project right now either

[Tigris99]

No need to change the axle unless your pushing more towards the max limit of the trailer.

All I did for my previous build was rebuilt the hubs with better bearings and bought trailer tire/rim combo so I had larger diameter.

Going wider you would need rims with different offset for clearance. Getting better quality and a bit taller tires is a good thing though.

And ALWAYS bring a spare.

Look at pop-up campers. Very basic trailer wheels and tires and their towed millions of miles every year by their owners without a problem. Just proper quality trailer tires and repacking the bearings in the hubs with good grease (and setting preload properly) is all that's needed.

What people also dont realize is the hub design for trailers was used in most cars/light trucks for decades. My old Ford escort I had as a teen. the rear wheels had the same size hubs and even jankier axle. Repacked the bearings once in 130k. 4 lug wheels the whole bit. And that was a 1800 or so pound car before anything put in it.

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[dsotto]

No need to change the axle unless your pushing more towards the max limit of the trailer.

All I did for my previous build was rebuilt the hubs with better bearings and bought trailer tire/rim combo so I had larger diameter.

Going wider you would need rims with different offset for clearance. Getting better quality and a bit taller tires is a good thing though.

And ALWAYS bring a spare.

Look at pop-up campers. Very basic trailer wheels and tires and their towed millions of miles every year by their owners without a problem. Just proper quality trailer tires and repacking the bearings in the hubs with good grease (and setting preload properly) is all that's needed.

What people also dont realize is the hub design for trailers was used in most cars/light trucks for decades. My old Ford escort I had as a teen. the rear wheels had the same size hubs and even jankier axle. Repacked the bearings once in 130k. 4 lug wheels the whole bit. And that was a 1800 or so pound car before anything put in it.

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That's great information!
This is the part I'm not sure about-"Going wider you would need rims with different offset for clearance. Getting better quality and a bit taller tires is a good thing though." Would the same brand of rim I'm currently using be the same clearance between 12-13"?

[working on it]

We've finished our tear! (Yay!) And are looking to upgrade the stock 12" tires on our 4x8 trailer. We have a couple options in mind but when I called NT asking about size they said for liability reasons not to change them. Well it's way less safe doing a 2000 Mile road trip on those tires. Has anyone upgraded to 13" tires on that trailer successfully?

Our options- The Kenda carrier star tire from NT 13" 4 hole for around $80 each
-the 13" 4 hole rim for $40 from NT and Goodyear marathon tires for $62/each.
I'm assuming 13" would fit on the axle but I've learned in this project to not assume so wanted to see if anyone was successful. I searched past threads but didn't see anything specific.

• I see two issues here: tire/wheel fitment and tire/wheel quality. The Martin wheels that NT carries are good, so there are no issues with them, since they are trailer-specific (with zero offset and standard rim width). On my trailer, I bought my road wheels at SW Wheel (and the spare tire wheel, bought years later, is a Martin from NT), and they had a 1/2" wider rim width than the Martin wheel, though they still have zero offset, and don't mount or ride any differently than the narrower Martin wheel. Just be sure you measure your 4-bolt axle stud spacing to make sure that it's the same as the new wheels (3 of them?, including spare, of course). And check your fender and sidewall clearances, because you will lose about 3/4" of room there, and may need spacers, like I used on my original axle meant for 8" wheels (I up-sized to 14").

  To ensure that the bigger size tire will fit you will want to make sure that there is 4-5 inches of space between the tire and any fender that you have... or the sides of the fender. Your 5.30-12 size tire has a diameter of 21.9 inches and the new 175/80R13 size tire will have a diameter of 24.1 inches meaning that it will be 1 inch closer to any fender or tire...With the larger size, the tire will be two inches taller and 1-1/2 inches wider.

• And then there is the quality issue.... I'm sure that most of the ST trailer tires out there meet the minimum standards required by the DOT, but most if not all are made in China, now. Some Chinese ST's are better than others, but I only use ST tires on my tandem axle trailer now, and bought LT tires for my TTT, to get a better quality, tougher tire. I can find no equivalent (to the 14" size I use) LT tire in 13", that you could buy for your trailer, so if you buy the ST tires (or a passenger car tire alternative), I'd suggest you use the NHTSA safety report page to check for tire recalls or complaints about whichever tire you decide upon. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchSafetyIssues?prodType=T I've heard many bad things about Goodyear Marathon ST tires (blowouts), but the complaints I read here, and the other ones online, seem to be from years ago, so perhaps the newer Goodyear Marathon ST tires are better. Same for the Kenda tires (tread separation, sidewall bubbles); they also seem to have gotten better lately. And if you choose to dodge the questionable-quality ST tire issue, and opt for passenger-car tires instead, then you might not be able to get them mounted on your trailer-specific wheels at some chain stores; I got my LT tires mounted and balanced at a small, independent two-man tire shop, who don't have any corporate rules to follow. Then I took the tires/wheel home and installed them on my TTT. At another time, I had taken a bare trailer wheel (from our 20-ft travel trailer) to Discount Tire for a new spare, and they would only put a ST tire on it, per company rules; I'm sure that they would do the same for any easily-recognizable trailer wheel.

[dsotto]

We've finished our tear! (Yay!) And are looking to upgrade the stock 12" tires on our 4x8 trailer. We have a couple options in mind but when I called NT asking about size they said for liability reasons not to change them. Well it's way less safe doing a 2000 Mile road trip on those tires. Has anyone upgraded to 13" tires on that trailer successfully?

Our options- The Kenda carrier star tire from NT 13" 4 hole for around $80 each
-the 13" 4 hole rim for $40 from NT and Goodyear marathon tires for $62/each.
I'm assuming 13" would fit on the axle but I've learned in this project to not assume so wanted to see if anyone was successful. I searched past threads but didn't see anything specific.

• I see two issues here: tire/wheel fitment and tire/wheel quality. The Martin wheels that NT carries are good, so there are no issues with them, since they are trailer-specific (with zero offset and standard rim width). On my trailer, I bought my road wheels at SW Wheel (and the spare tire wheel, bought years later, is a Martin from NT), and they had a 1/2" wider rim width than the Martin wheel, though they still have zero offset, and don't mount or ride any differently than the narrower Martin wheel. Just be sure you measure your 4-bolt axle stud spacing to make sure that it's the same as the new wheels (3 of them?, including spare, of course). And check your fender and sidewall clearances, because you will lose about 3/4" of room there, and may need spacers, like I used on my original axle meant for 8" wheels (I up-sized to 14").

  To ensure that the bigger size tire will fit you will want to make sure that there is 4-5 inches of space between the tire and any fender that you have... or the sides of the fender. Your 5.30-12 size tire has a diameter of 21.9 inches and the new 175/80R13 size tire will have a diameter of 24.1 inches meaning that it will be 1 inch closer to any fender or tire...With the larger size, the tire will be two inches taller and 1-1/2 inches wider.

• And then there is the quality issue.... I'm sure that most of the ST trailer tires out there meet the minimum standards required by the DOT, but most if not all are made in China, now. Some Chinese ST's are better than others, but I only use ST tires on my tandem axle trailer now, and bought LT tires for my TTT, to get a better quality, tougher tire. I can find no equivalent (to the 14" size I use) LT tire in 13", that you could buy for your trailer, so if you buy the ST tires (or a passenger car tire alternative), I'd suggest you use the NHTSA safety report page to check for tire recalls or complaints about whichever tire you decide upon. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchSafetyIssues?prodType=T I've heard many bad things about Goodyear Marathon ST tires (blowouts), but the complaints I read here, and the other ones online, seem to be from years ago, so perhaps the newer Goodyear Marathon ST tires are better. Same for the Kenda tires (tread separation, sidewall bubbles); they also seem to have gotten better lately. And if you choose to dodge the questionable-quality ST tire issue, and opt for passenger-car tires instead, then you might not be able to get them mounted on your trailer-specific wheels at some chain stores; I got my LT tires mounted and balanced at a small, independent two-man tire shop, who don't have any corporate rules to follow. Then I took the tires/wheel home and installed them on my TTT. At another time, I had taken a bare trailer wheel (from our 20-ft travel trailer) to Discount Tire for a new spare, and they would only put a ST tire on it, per company rules; I'm sure that they would do the same for any easily-recognizable trailer wheel.

We got the 13" Martin tires installed at NTB
We have maybe just over a half inch of clearance between the tire and the frame at the closest spot. That makes me a bit uncomfortable but the tech said as long as we make sure the pressure is good we shouldn't have an issue. Should we be fine or get some wheel spacers? We have maybe a three quarter inch of tread left on the lugs.

[working on it]

We got the 13" Martin tires installed at NTB
We have maybe just over a half inch of clearance between the tire and the frame at the closest spot. That makes me a bit uncomfortable but the tech said as long as we make sure the pressure is good we shouldn't have an issue. Should we be fine or get some wheel spacers? We have maybe a three quarter inch of tread left on the lugs.

dsotto's tire clearance.JPG (130.92 KiB) Viewed 7918 times

• If you can keep your tires inflated to the max.cold pressure, have your lug nuts tight, and take no turns too tightly (or traverse roads that may become steeply banked), then you may be able to get away with such tight sidewall clearance. You did get the stiff-sidewalled ST tires, didn't you? That will help prevent contact. Also, it'll help if your trailer suspension is a bit on the harsh side, not soft, because that will help too.
• Since my driving style is rather brisk, and often hard on suspensions, I always needed stiff suspensions, fully inflated tires (drag slicks not included), and sufficient tire clearance. Once, I blew an oversized rear tire on my Chevelle (when it was still street-able) that crumpled the rear fender, at 70+ mph. There was insufficient clearance inside the rear wheel-well, which is comparable to a trailer fender, showing (to me) that clearance is very important, on all wheeled vehicles. Following that, I paid more attention to tire clearance on all my stuff, thereafter.
• There has been much discussion about how much clearance is needed for trailer tires, mostly concerned with the tire-bulge to trailer wall area, but some about the distance between tire top to fender . Actually, both areas are critical: if the tire rises up into the fender over bumps, then the tire tread will be abraded, and the fender may be pushed up, damaging it...and if the tire sidewall abrades against the trailer frame or wall material, then the tire may get cut (usually from a nut/bolt making contact),or the wall gets partially ground away, over time. Of the two scenarios, a cut tire sidewall is the most dangerous (tire treads are seldom severely damaged by incidental contact with the underside of a fender, unless there was no clearance there to start with).
• Looking at the photo of your present tire clearance, I see possible bolt-head contact in your future...and from the earlier photo of your old tire under the fender, possibly some contact there, too, but possibly negligible. Like I stated, the tire must be kept from contact wherever possible. I think the easiest, cheapest, fastest recourse would be to get wheel spacers, of 1"-1.25" minimum thickness (I think your new tires will still fit mostly under your present fenders, but you'll have to measure). I've used many before....

from an earlier thread

• I've gone from having about 1.5-1.75" clearance, to about 3", and back down to 2+"...and my suspension has built-in safeguards to stop contact; in your case, why not get the extra width, just to be sure, as long as the outside width of your tires doesn't become a problem?
• A leaf-spring axle, whether located front or rear on a car or truck (called a solid-axle on 4wd's & heavy trucks), or on a trailer, will cause one wheel to pivot up closer to the frame (or conversely, the fender lip on the other side), creating a fitment issue. If that see-saw effect isn't limited via a positive stop, or super-firm springs. then some tire scrub against frame or fender can be expected, especially on very uneven roads or trails. Independently-sprung tires (on IFS front suspensions on cars/trucks, torsion and Timbren-type suspensions on trailers), do not have the same problem. And, tire size, type, and section width also can increase the need for proper fitment, to avoid tire contact.
• Tire sidewalls flex under load, sometimes moving toward a contact point, so the elimination of such contact requires spacing your tire so that the sidewall bulge (at the section width measurement point) doesn't come close enough. On the frame side, under most conditions, a properly-inflated tire doesn't need more than .75-1", but on fire-roads or trails, that requires more spacing, depending on: tire characteristics, proper or under-inflation, axle travel, and bumpstop or axle limiters that can prevent contact. On the fender side (low-riders need not apply), the taller/wider (more open) types of fenders on most trailers and trail-following tow vehicles, are already mostly safe from tire contact.
• My original axle was noticeably inferior to what I wanted/needed to make my TTT able to traverse even mildly-challenging roads; I didn't have the budget at that time, for my axle of choice, so I just added wheel spacers to fit wider/taller tires under my selected fenders (good for 14-16" tires, as advertised), at least for the interim. I went from 8" to 14" tires, so it was a necessity to install the fenders/spacers, ASAP. When I finally upgraded the suspension, I got a wider axle (a requirement to fit in brakes), which eliminated the need for spacers, and also gave me more clearance between tires and frame, and the fenders still had sufficient clearance. too. The tire-frame clearance more than doubled, and that was a great boon, because I later added taller/wider/more flexible LT tires, in place of the rigid-sidewall ST bias tires I had used previously. I still retained about 2" clearance, but I did have to add fender flares to cover the outside tread, though no clearance issue with the fender was caused by the bigger tire. So, I have quite adequate clearance, all around.

• 

  tire distance from trailer.JPG (114.25 KiB) Viewed 7918 times

[dsotto]

We got the 13" Martin tires installed at NTB
We have maybe just over a half inch of clearance between the tire and the frame at the closest spot. That makes me a bit uncomfortable but the tech said as long as we make sure the pressure is good we shouldn't have an issue. Should we be fine or get some wheel spacers? We have maybe a three quarter inch of tread left on the lugs.

dsotto's tire clearance.JPG

• If you can keep your tires inflated to the max.cold pressure, have your lug nuts tight, and take no turns too tightly (or traverse roads that may become steeply banked), then you may be able to get away with such tight sidewall clearance. You did get the stiff-sidewalled ST tires, didn't you? That will help prevent contact. Also, it'll help if your trailer suspension is a bit on the harsh side, not soft, because that will help too.
• Since my driving style is rather brisk, and often hard on suspensions, I always needed stiff suspensions, fully inflated tires (drag slicks not included), and sufficient tire clearance. Once, I blew an oversized rear tire on my Chevelle (when it was still street-able) that crumpled the rear fender, at 70+ mph. There was insufficient clearance inside the rear wheel-well, which is comparable to a trailer fender, showing (to me) that clearance is very important, on all wheeled vehicles. Following that, I paid more attention to tire clearance on all my stuff, thereafter.
• There has been much discussion about how much clearance is needed for trailer tires, mostly concerned with the tire-bulge to trailer wall area, but some about the distance between tire top to fender . Actually, both areas are critical: if the tire rises up into the fender over bumps, then the tire tread will be abraded, and the fender may be pushed up, damaging it...and if the tire sidewall abrades against the trailer frame or wall material, then the tire may get cut (usually from a nut/bolt making contact),or the wall gets partially ground away, over time. Of the two scenarios, a cut tire sidewall is the most dangerous (tire treads are seldom severely damaged by incidental contact with the underside of a fender, unless there was no clearance there to start with).
• Looking at the photo of your present tire clearance, I see possible bolt-head contact in your future...and from the earlier photo of your old tire under the fender, possibly some contact there, too, but possibly negligible. Like I stated, the tire must be kept from contact wherever possible. I think the easiest, cheapest, fastest recourse would be to get wheel spacers, of 1"-1.25" minimum thickness (I think your new tires will still fit mostly under your present fenders, but you'll have to measure). I've used many before....

from an earlier thread

• I've gone from having about 1.5-1.75" clearance, to about 3", and back down to 2+"...and my suspension has built-in safeguards to stop contact; in your case, why not get the extra width, just to be sure, as long as the outside width of your tires doesn't become a problem?
• A leaf-spring axle, whether located front or rear on a car or truck (called a solid-axle on 4wd's & heavy trucks), or on a trailer, will cause one wheel to pivot up closer to the frame (or conversely, the fender lip on the other side), creating a fitment issue. If that see-saw effect isn't limited via a positive stop, or super-firm springs. then some tire scrub against frame or fender can be expected, especially on very uneven roads or trails. Independently-sprung tires (on IFS front suspensions on cars/trucks, torsion and Timbren-type suspensions on trailers), do not have the same problem. And, tire size, type, and section width also can increase the need for proper fitment, to avoid tire contact.
• Tire sidewalls flex under load, sometimes moving toward a contact point, so the elimination of such contact requires spacing your tire so that the sidewall bulge (at the section width measurement point) doesn't come close enough. On the frame side, under most conditions, a properly-inflated tire doesn't need more than .75-1", but on fire-roads or trails, that requires more spacing, depending on: tire characteristics, proper or under-inflation, axle travel, and bumpstop or axle limiters that can prevent contact. On the fender side (low-riders need not apply), the taller/wider (more open) types of fenders on most trailers and trail-following tow vehicles, are already mostly safe from tire contact.
• My original axle was noticeably inferior to what I wanted/needed to make my TTT able to traverse even mildly-challenging roads; I didn't have the budget at that time, for my axle of choice, so I just added wheel spacers to fit wider/taller tires under my selected fenders (good for 14-16" tires, as advertised), at least for the interim. I went from 8" to 14" tires, so it was a necessity to install the fenders/spacers, ASAP. When I finally upgraded the suspension, I got a wider axle (a requirement to fit in brakes), which eliminated the need for spacers, and also gave me more clearance between tires and frame, and the fenders still had sufficient clearance. too. The tire-frame clearance more than doubled, and that was a great boon, because I later added taller/wider/more flexible LT tires, in place of the rigid-sidewall ST bias tires I had used previously. I still retained about 2" clearance, but I did have to add fender flares to cover the outside tread, though no clearance issue with the fender was caused by the bigger tire. So, I have quite adequate clearance, all around.
• tire distance from trailer.JPG

Thanks for your response! It's been helpful. I've been doing more looking around on here and the only reason we went to 13" was that it was significantly better for driving. I'm seeing tons of people saying they've gone on 12" no problem.
The stock tires were 12" and 4.8" wide. At highway speeds we had zero sway (pull with Jeep compass and TD is 840lbs) so no problems other than what we perceived would be over use during long road trips. The new 13" tires are 6.5" wide and the high speed 12" tires are 5.6" wide. I read up on wheel spacers and they seem like more trouble than what it's worth. I think we might return those 13" and get the high speed 12". That way would would be right at 1 1/2" clearance between frame and tire. We planned on scrapping that stock fender (which are installed per directions and we thought they looked low too!) and getting some pretty smooth black ones anyways. We just had them for protection with our first couple trips until we did this wheel change out.
I'm glad you mentioned all the things you'd done because it gives more options if/when we want to take the time to make a big change. I love the idea of bigger tires for aesthetics as well but not for the struggle it's presenting.

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[Homebrewer25]

We've finished our tear! (Yay!) And are looking to upgrade the stock 12" tires on our 4x8 trailer. We have a couple options in mind but when I called NT asking about size they said for liability reasons not to change them. Well it's way less safe doing a 2000 Mile road trip on those tires. Has anyone upgraded to 13" tires on that trailer successfully?

Our options- The Kenda carrier star tire from NT 13" 4 hole for around $80 each
-the 13" 4 hole rim for $40 from NT and Goodyear marathon tires for $62/each.
I'm assuming 13" would fit on the axle but I've learned in this project to not assume so wanted to see if anyone was successful. I searched past threads but didn't see anything specific.

Thanks!

Finally able to post s completed picture!

I don't have any input on tires/wheels, but just want to say what a beautiful paint job on your tear. I'll bet you get a lot of comments on it when you are traveling.

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[billyq]

Has anyone replaced the wheel studs on the NT 5x8 trailer?
I installed a 1/2" wheel spacer to get room for 14" wheels, but there's only 3/8" stud in the lug nuts. Probably OK for now, since the whole things weighs around 400 pounds, but I'd like a better solution. I haven't been able to find longer studs (the trailer uses metric), so my options are to replace the whole axle or install 1" spacers (with their own studs). Any recommendations?

[gudmund]

go to W-M they carry a brand called 'Douglas' - which is made by Goodyear here in the US - I have used them for years now on my Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift's getting over 45000++miles out of each - they hold up GREAT which is why I use them on my teardrop also!! And YES, so far they also work just fine on the teardrop = riding a lot better than any trailer tire I have ever used. (my opinion = for what it's worth - ST "trailer" tires are NOT needed on small teardrops.) They have a 175/70-13 size that maybe the size you are looking for and cost under $60 each the last time I looked. I am using their 195/70-14 size on mine and paid $53 each for them a year or so ago for the tear. (the 155/80-13 I use on the Metro/Suzuki cost $37 each and come with a 45000 mile wear warranty from W-M) I like the fact that W-M's are just about every where with them carrying this tire at almost all of their stores - as long as they-the store has a tire department - not all do. The Douglas 'brand' is a tire marketed by W-M made for them by Goodyear. Any thing pertaining to 'this' brand is handled by W-M "NOT' Goodyear.