GFI vs. CTC Fixed!

[phoenixbound]

I am betting this has already been covered and that there are some folks on the forum that know way more about electricity and wiring than I do, but I will bring this up anyway. I am getting a concrete pad added to my my driveway specifically for the CTC (whoop, whoop!). To make things easier I decided that it would be good to have an outside outlet to plug the CTC in while it is in the home port to work on it or whatever. And it should be a GFI, right? Got it all installed with the new GFI plu and plugged it in for the first time, it tripped the GFI and wouldn’t work at all. Did a little internet research and it turns out GFI’s don’t work well with RV’s. Not saying it can’t be done, but generally they don’t work. That’s why you don’t see them in the RV Parks. So, going to put a standard outlet in the outside outlet. I have it totally covered from the elements so it will be okay. Lesson learned, again.

[Ottsville]

Electrical code in my area calls for any outside 110/120v outlet to be gfi protected. Test your outlet with a gfi test plug. If it works with that, but trips when you plug your trailer in, then there is a wiring issue in your trailer.

[hankaye]

phoenixbound, Howdy;

I am betting this has already been covered and that there are some folks on the forum that know way more about electricity and wiring than I do, but I will bring this up anyway. I am getting a concrete pad added to my my driveway specifically for the CTC (whoop, whoop!). To make things easier I decided that it would be good to have an outside outlet to plug the CTC in while it is in the home port to work on it or whatever. And it should be a GFI, right? Got it all installed with the new GFI plu and plugged it in for the first time, it tripped the GFI and wouldn’t work at all. Did a little internet research and it turns out GFI’s don’t work well with RV’s. Not saying it can’t be done, but generally they don’t work. That’s why you don’t see them in the RV Parks. So, going to put a standard outlet in the outside outlet. I have it totally covered from the elements so it will be okay. Lesson learned, again.

I live in an RV, It has GFI outlets, including the one out side that is a dual outlet like the ones on homes for the Christmas lights.
Double check all your connections. Here's a link that may be helpful about GFCI outlets, has to do with the National Electrical Code.
https://www.ecmweb.com/code-basics/nec- ... pters-gfci

Hope that helps.

hank

[flboy]

If the GFCI trips when CTC is plugged in, something is possibly wrong with the CTC wiring with respect to the Neutral/Ground or you may have an actual ground fault. Do you have anything in the CTC that has the ground and neutral bonded or was it bonded in the panel? Your ground/neutral bond should only be at the shore power source.

You should have a GFCI breaker on any outlet outside (Code at least where I live). RV parks do use GFCI breakers, but some RV's trip them due to ground bonding or actual ground faults that need to be fixed.

If you have a second additional downstream neutral/ground bond from shore power, the Ground in the CTC panel (now a subpanel to the shore power panel) is in parallel with the Neutral conductor and carrying current so current flowing out the Hot isn't 100% returned by the Neutral which will trip a GFCI if it senses apprx. a 5 milliamps difference.

It is also possible that you have an actual fault between the hot and ground on an appliance in your CTC (GFCI doing its job and pointing to a problem). In this case, you might try turning off all the breakers in your CTC, then plugging in the CTC to the GFCI plug and turn one breaker on at a time until it blows. Then you will know which circuit to start looking for the problem with.

Honestly, at this point, if you are not comfortable troubleshooting this or know what you are looking for... pay an electrician for about an hour of his or her time. A good electrician should be able to find the issue in less than an hour. Electrical safety is very important, so you need to be sure about your outside power outlet, and the wiring in your CTC. A GFCI popping is a red flag that something is amiss. Please do not disregard it.


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[McDave]

You need to verify that the GFCI is functional. Plug in an appliance and check operation. That space heater would be a good test. If OK find the circuit that fails. My guess? Air conditioner.
Get back with us.

McDave

[flboy]

So, going to put a standard outlet in the outside outlet. I have it totally covered from the elements so it will be okay. Lesson learned, again.

Phoenix bound, worth mention, just having the electrical box out of the elements keeps the box from shorting out regardless of GFCI or otherwise and is just good practice.

The purpose of the GFCI is not so much to protect the outlet as it is to keep the poor guy using his electric weed wacker in damp grass and flip flops from being killed when the whacker shorts out. Anytime there is the opportunity to use the electric near water or outside , a GFCI is called for. That is why they are in bathrooms, kitchens, garages, and typically, all outside outlets. Poor guy listening to the radio in the bathtub goes to tune the radio plugged into the wall.. well, you know the rest of the story. :-)

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[MtnDon]

Buy a tester like this one. There are many brands and most big box home supply centers should have them available. It is possible that someplace in the trailer a white and black have been incorrectly connected. Plug into a non GFCI outlet then test every outlet in the trailer. Don't forget about any that might be hidden.

GFCI protected exterior outlets are required everywhere in the US and Canada.

[phoenixbound]

I ordered a tester this morning. To be continued.............

[hankaye]

phoenixbound, Howdy;

There is another thing you and everyone here that is doing their own wiring should be
aware of and that is called a ' Hot Skin Condition '. Here's an article by a true electrical
' expert '. http://noshockzone.org/rv-electrical-sa ... -hot-skin/
Worth a read.

hank

[flboy]

phoenixbound, Howdy;

There is another thing you and everyone here that is doing their own wiring should be
aware of and that is called a ' Hot Skin Condition '. Here's an article by a true electrical
' expert '. http://noshockzone.org/rv-electrical-sa ... -hot-skin/
Worth a read.

hank

Really good read!

That Hot Skin has killed many good people... Stepping out of the RV onto damp grass in bare feet with one hand on the door knob is all it takes if there is a sizeable voltage potential on the chassis to Earth Ground. You should never even feel a tingle.... But that is exactly what a GFCI is there to protect against assuming it is properly installed.

The outlet tester posted previously is an excellent tool for making sure outlets are wired properly and the voltmeter to check for an electrified chassis is worthwhile to do once in a while to make sure all is well. Just going down the road, insulation on a poorly run hot wire could come in contact with the chassis after many years due to vibration and rubbing on metal.

Also, the outlet tester can also test the GFCI breakers in your camper. You should check them at least a few times a year to make sure they work. Most have a self test button which also does the test.

[working on it]

... Stepping out of the RV onto damp grass in bare feet with one hand on the door knob is all it takes if there is a sizeable voltage potential on the chassis to Earth Ground. You should never even feel a tingle....

• Not the same thing as the Hot Skin problem, nor was it life-threatening, but it reminded me of it....
• When my youngest brother was living outside Beeville, Tx., while stationed at the Naval Air Station there in the mid-1980's, he resided in a broken-down single-wide trailer, that had been used as a rental for 15 years or more. Everything was rusting, including the front metal steps/porch, and falling apart, so when I visited him in late '85, I figured I'd help him make it a little better & safer. After sealing several windows, re-plumbing the leaking propane lines, and replacing fencing around his "chicken yard", I addressed the shaky, about-to-collapse front steps/porch. I removed the thick rubber mat on top, slick with a S.Texas mist, sat on the step below, and reached into my metal toolbox...and got shocked. I promptly jumped off and looked for a live wire somewhere, but found none. I tied a couple of ropes around it, and dragged it away from the house with my truck, uncovering the culprit: a phone line, pinched & pierced by the bottom step/leg.
• It turned out that my brother had an extension line run around the back from the pole, but didn't take care to make sure it didn't snag the nearby front steps. And he wondered why his two raw-boned hounds, who he had named "Yowie, and Capt. Wow, had made the sounds he had named them for, when going in-out of the front door. Everytime they'd jump onto the porch, they'd rock it against the aluminum skin of the trailer, and not being insulated by the rubber mat placed to the side, would get shocked. My brother never felt the shock, even when bare-footed, as he always paused and wiped his feet on the rubber mat when entering, and didn't rock the steps into the house like the 90-lb dogs did.
• Phone landlines carry up to 90 volts, but few amps, compared to household or RV wiring. Back in the day, my grandmother warned us not to use the phone during a T-storm, as she had been shocked that way. I did, too, but I'm not so sure it was from the T-storm outside, or from the thick wool rugs combined with the dry floor-furnace heat of her house (perfect for static-electric shocks!). Anyway, I do check grounding at every campsite, use both GFCI testers & plugs/receptacles, and surge suppressors, too. After nearly being electrocuted by bad electricians at work, and through my failure to check their work, I am now very cautious around ac current (12vdc, not so much).

[KTM_Guy]

Back when we had the popup camper every time we pull into a campsite I would check the pedestal power with one of those testers before anything would get plugged in. It was amazing how many were not right. Less issues with the 50 and 30 amp outlet than the 20 amp.

Todd

[phoenixbound]

All good now. Bought a GFI tester from Amazon, read up a little more and figured out I had the wires hooked up on the Load side of the outlet. Moved the wires to where they should be and it's working perfectly now. Passes the GFI test and I can hook the CTC to it without any problems. Learning more all the time, even at my advanced age.

[McDave]

That a boy! Nice job phoenix.

McDave

[flboy]

All good now. Bought a GFI tester from Amazon, read up a little more and figured out I had the wires hooked up on the Load side of the outlet. Moved the wires to where they should be and it's working perfectly now. Passes the GFI test and I can hook the CTC to it without any problems. Learning more all the time, even at my advanced age.

Nice job. Anytime a GFCI is tripping... something to investigate. I am so glad you didn't just let that ride.