FoamStream...

[GPW]

After the sale ( too late ) , I asked my RV dealer if there was any maintenance I had to perform … He said it was mandatory to get the roof recaulked at least once a year or else the warranty was void , and he could do it for only $1200.00 ( a year ) GRRRR !!!! Turns out Every thing we reported as faulty , the new dry fit windows leaking , the refrigerator ( new ) not working at all and the delamination of the front and rotted floor parts ( due to the leaky windows ) … Somehow NONE of that was covered under the warranty … They blamed everything that happened on me … The Manufacturer turned me over to their complaints dept, where TROY , just kept saying NO to every point we brought up … I think that’s all he was allowed to say … except “the dealer can fix it “ , and everything we asked the dealer to fix was an extra $5000.00 , their labor rate was $150 hr, and that was for the old retiree in the back who took his time and did everything "half fast" … What an A-hole !!!

The consensus among the RV sites clearly states , expect to spend $10K -20K a year on RV Maintenance …

All in all I’ve had the FS for 5 years ( living outside ) and have spent a total of 1500.USD and that was including the recent floor renovation ( my fault, correcting my flawed design ) Figure I’m ahead of the game now , thanks to TNTTT !!!!


Note: all this made me so Happy , I decided to hang around for years and tell everybody else about it …

[LostCajun]

After the sale ( too late ) , I asked my RV dealer if there was any maintenance I had to perform … He said it was mandatory to get the roof recaulked at least once a year or else the warranty was void , and he could do it for only $1200.00 ( a year ) GRRRR !!!! Turns out Every thing we reported as faulty , the new dry fit windows leaking , the refrigerator ( new ) not working at all and the delamination of the front and rotted floor parts ( due to the leaky windows ) … Somehow NONE of that was covered under the warranty … They blamed everything that happened on me … The Manufacturer turned me over to their complaints dept, where TROY , just kept saying NO to every point we brought up … I think that’s all he was allowed to say … except “the dealer can fix it “ , and everything we asked the dealer to fix was an extra $5000.00 , their labor rate was $150 hr, and that was for the old retiree in the back who took his time and did everything "half fast" … What an A-hole !!!

The consensus among the RV sites clearly states , expect to spend $10K -20K a year on RV Maintenance …

All in all I’ve had the FS for 5 years ( living outside ) and have spent a total of 1500.USD and that was including the recent floor renovation ( my fault, correcting my flawed design ) Figure I’m ahead of the game now , thanks to TNTTT !!!!


Note: all this made me so Happy , I decided to hang around for years and tell everybody else about it …

When I first started this 'full time' RV adventure...I was in a Escapees Park, packing up for a trip to Mayo Clinic....actually pulling the RV up to MN from TN 1K miles one way....diesel was $4....I was at that time 'low+wealth'....I was worried about the roof....but I was too sick to climb up there....and my cane and mobility scooter always get in the way....there was a mobile RV repair guy in the park, doing some high end Coach work...I think he was replacing a commode...I flagged the guy down....as it seemed he was cruising around just for some such event to occur after he finished a repair....

I asked him about a few other repairs not talking about the roof.....then I wiggled in the upcoming in the next day Mayo trip....and the rain in the forecast....and asked what his price for checking the roof....a 'quickee' was quoted at $400 since he was already there.....when I then stumbled around and told him I guess maybe he might check to see if I had fell off the roof before he left the park....and next thing I know....he is up on the roof....I pull out my wallet....and said....I have an extra forty dollars as best I can figure (thats what I calculated it was worth)....and he spent about 15 minutes and I watched from about 50 feet away he walked the whole roof and hit the few cracks that were definitely up here.....now to do a good job.....is worth more than $40 bucks.....but not $400.....and definitely not the $1200 they want to hit you for every year.....with no warranty as to what they did.....the only way to be anyway safe that your roof is sealed, is to get up there yourself.....I know.....I was up on mine with a friend a couple of months ago....so lesson that I am sure you are saying.....no holes, no seams that need caulking on roof if can be prevented.....we were up there half a day and didn't finish.....

Heat delaminated every Copper Canyon Sprinter front wall within warranty period.....and none fixed that I am aware of...

My first big un....was Jayco, a real weird floor plan....but one that I loved and miss....it had front wall entertainment center and closet....living area, nice flex steel double adjustable foot rest love seat/dinette super slide, with small kitchen with bar with two stools that were the first thing after coming from the front wall, the front entrance door....two feet from the front edge, then the two stools at the bar......then after the kitchen the largest bathroom I have seen in one and a nice bedroom with a second door....I did a lot of traveling pulling that one....it had metal sides....I sold it at about 5 years...and didn't have any major issues that I discovered (I am sure they were there....I just wasn't looking for them)....

With all that said.....and having lived in one for 7 years.....the big factor is overrated......no matter what you get there will be 'used' space and 'unused' space....I think that is what is the real question.....figure out what space you will use....and build only that...that is what I hear you are doing....and that is what I intend to do....

and don't build using the same methods that are proven to be worthless to some degree, or more maintenance than one can do or has the ability to do or is beyond one's 'wealth' level....whether that level is measured or self imposed.....I have always enjoyed a good dumpster dive.....

I am sure glad you and all the others are still around spreading the foam, luan, plywood and all the other stuff....even epoxy and resin....

I started following this site at the same time I started full timing....I was visioning an additional rig to pull on little trips....I enjoy reading about your reasoning.....it rings true with me.

[GPW]

LC, we met with a young guy around here that did “ High end coach work” … He took me on a brief tour of his facility , showing me the damaged coaches he was working on … He volunteered that all these pricy coaches were damaged by our old friend Water leaks …. One leak took out (rotted) the whole back of a coach he showed me … I asked what a repair like this cost … he casually said $28,000 .00 and mentioned that was normal as he had a few more coaches waiting for similar repairs … Looked like his business was doing very well ...

On top my commercial trailer ( the Jco dealer warned us Not to walk on it ) The roof consisted of 2” of beaded foam covered by the cheapest thinnest( most brittle ) plywood we’ve ever seen … covered by a “membrane” that looked and felt exactly like a Cheap dollar store plastic tablecloth … Thinner than paper , backed by some kind of material that wicked water like crazy . The bottom of the roof * inside was nothing more than a textured wallpaper glued to the foam … and that was purely cosmetic as we found when a small rotten limb easily flew through ( completely ) the roof in 10 places … “ Made to Fail !!! "
Living in the woods , I’ve seen similar limbs bounce off the FS roof , no problem … Painted canvas more resilient than their cracker brittle construction …

And then we saw so many FEMA trailers (Katrina) that our government so hastily paid $75,000 each for $10,000 trailers ( Somebody's brother in law did very well on that deal ...) They didn’t even last the 6 months they were supposed to be there…most weren’t complete from the start , and so hastily assembled they reeked of the chemicals in the wood ( formaldehyde ) , so bad, many people were poisoned by the fumes . A sweet old friend died in hers , she was in a "Handicapped trailer" that when I visited , I couldn’t stay inside the chemical smell was so bad … Very sad … Worse was driving through lower MS looking at a hillside off into the sunset with nothing but rotted government trailers … Many unused , still rotting with the rest … The whole thing was a BAD Deal for the Taxpayers , and really bad for the folks that depended on them to live in while they rebuilt their homes … That was just One of the Government disaster programs that put a Lot of money into the hands of their friends… Too bad corruption rules disasters … Good job Brownie !!!

One day we’ll explain the Blue roof program … an exercise in corruption …Where the government paid contractors $180.00 a square to put cheap blue plastic tarps on roofs … The main contractor took $100.00 a square off the top and passed the job on to a sub.. and on down ( trickle down ) till the installer of the tarp got $2.00 a square … It has been written that the first contractor was the Governors husband … running a straw company to siphon money off disaster relief …

Being able to make our own trailer and provide for ourselves has given us more freedom and much “peace of Mind” … I’m forever grateful for all the Folks at TnTTT that shared their knowledge and experience … Otherwise , we’d have been in the same mess as before ...

[GPW]

Ok , Putting that soap box away …( saving it for FarceBook hahahaha )

And now back to trailers ...

[GPW]

…. and it’s raining …. again !!! If there’s anything I can recommend that REALLY Works … that is “Drip Edges” ….

Seems it’s been unusually Rainy lately and not only for us … and a simple drip edge will save a lot of problems from developing . Now , all that rain ( and morning dew) gets diverted immediately to the ground where it belongs , not in my trailer ...

JMHO, if you’re making a new trailer , you might want to include this … it DOES Work !!! If you have an old trailer you like , you may want to retrofit them … I just went through changing out that FS floor and it wasn’t exactly Fun ( well. it was , sorta’ ) and should have been unnecessary … But we didn’t know …. till now !!! Water damage can be prevented …

[LostCajun]

…. and it’s raining …. again !!! If there’s anything I can recommend that REALLY Works … that is “Drip Edges” ….

Seems it’s been unusually Rainy lately and not only for us … and a simple drip edge will save a lot of problems from developing . Now , all that rain ( and morning dew) gets diverted immediately to the ground where it belongs , not in my trailer ...

JMHO, if you’re making a new trailer , you might want to include this … it DOES Work !!! If you have an old trailer you like , you may want to retrofit them … I just went through changing out that FS floor and it wasn’t exactly Fun ( well. it was , sorta’ ) and should have been unnecessary … But we didn’t know …. till now !!! Water damage can be prevented …

GPW, thanks for adding this big tidbit right now...

I am building right now (even though mostly in my head) I am making progress each day toward the first two things being joined together...as I find I am still accumulating 'things' and bits and pieces...and clearing and staging my work area...reading a little some days and reading a lot other days...

I do have a couple of list of methods that I am planning to test and hopefully use, drip edge is already on the list.

I find I am more confused now than ever about methods and materials....but....being in an area where everything has mold on it if left outside, and we are in our cold and wet rainy season....as of a few days ago....I was getting to the point of being sure of the need to include a drip edge....last night I was looking over a few methods to maybe accomplish that...maybe the way Mel did the Road Foamy...

Lately, I have been through probably 20 - 30 build threads thoroughly....some multiple times....front to back....FoamStream I have only skimmed....time to give it a go...

[GPW]

LC, it’a Always the rainy season here … Mold remediation is a way of life … you know !

One surprising point , we found it wasn’t the local deluges that ruined the underfloor canvas , but the everlasting Morning dew that wet the canvas every day … Keeping canvas moistened continuously , softening TB2 used to attach it and allowing the water to eventually soak into the floor (OSB) …. and attracting Ants …
The simple Drip edges made of drywall corner edges only 1 1/4” deep works perfectly to keep the floor dry underneath …

Once again here’s the drawing ..using the drywall corners ( Thanks to Steve ,George, and Tac for the info) Easy, inexpensive , and it WORKS !!!

[LostCajun]

LC, it’a Always the rainy season here … Mold remediation is a way of life … you know !

One surprising point , we found it wasn’t the local deluges that ruined the underfloor canvas , but the everlasting Morning dew that wet the canvas every day … Keeping canvas moistened continuously , softening TB2 used to attach it and allowing the water to eventually soak into the floor (OSB) …. and attracting Ants …
The simple Drip edges made of drywall corner edges only 1 1/4” deep works perfectly to keep the floor dry underneath …

Once again here’s the drawing ..using the drywall corners ( Thanks to Steve ,George, and Tac for the info) Easy, inexpensive , and it WORKS !!!

Wow!

Thanks GPW...

Yes...being the 'world traveler' that I am... ....it might get lost on some that I am from the same neck of the woods as GPW....well familiar with the oppressive heat, humidity, and constant rain deluges of my beloved home turf...but, can't say I miss any of that stuff....I could use some good food...besides what is cooked in my RV....(hard to find here)....and I miss so much more....but....being wet from head to toe from walking the distance from the house door to the car door....not....and 20" afternoon showers....not....

We don't get much rain here in the total category....but....we have other challenges.....with not being able to find any 'flat' ground....think the movie Sgt York...rich people down in the somewhat flat bottom land....and us poor folk (less-wealth)....up on the ridges....plenty of trees, plenty of moss covered rocks, plenty of areas within a few feet of anything that might not get direct sunlight at all, or very little due to angle of hills intercepting the sun.....it gets more of a problem this time of year as the fall's Sun low angle doesn't hit the sides of hills much.....so this time of year with the increased frequency of cold fronts and the accompaning rain showers......its a mold factory.....

I haven't seen that image before this time? I don't know how that can be....actually I do....just the way it is.....

It really is a shame that there hasn't been a good summary of methods for foamies put in a 'pinned' post in quite a while.....there are probably a handful working on books or websites on a pay to play premise (nothing wrong with that).....except I need good info right now.....I am cognitively challenged? I know.....hard to believe.... .....but true..... .....certified

I am past terminal.....expired actually.....time sensitive....is very dear to me.....

While perusing through this website is a privilege.....and one that I am extremely grateful for.....(and I am no stranger here....although....I am new as a contributor { that could be debated for a few seconds}......).....

It is a very frustrating experience for someone on a mission.....I don't have years to complete my project.....I don't have years to redo my efforts a few times....and I don't have the money....

So....I know a bunch of you guys try real hard to help ( and I do know the difference between 'help' and 'holding hands'...and even 'doing it for you'...)

Might I suggest.....that it is time to revisit the pinned posts for 'foamies'..........most of what is pinned isn't really helpful in the way it is 'pinned'....and its dated....and superseded......it looks like it was very helpful when it was 'pinned' but most of it was done years ago.....

Really just trying to be helpful....from this end....someone searching...

Okay, back to your response.....thanks for that image.....I bought a handful of drywall corners to try in different tests....even a bullnose....and I have a stapler (not a red one)....

So, Drip Edge....on the build list....

Now....what you mentioned in your post about TBII softening......I caught that in I believe '1' post after reading maybe ten thousand posts going back and forth between TBII and Glidden Gripper as the way to apply canvas to foam.....then I was caught off guard when I read your report of your floor being destroyed.....by water....and your thought that the TBII has dissolved and allows the canvas to rot.....I was ready to toss the TBII....(almost.....I was in the process of second sourcing that....or at least trying to....and that is a frustrating experience without asking.....there is just so much content on here....)

This is probably me....the frustration I am experiencing.....I was expecting like I read from others....I was expecting to be able to wade through enough pages to find the information I was looking for.....by I am convinced now.....I won't get there....that way....the only chance I have to start actually asking questions....

So, that is probably what I will start doing....and finish the FoamStream thread.....

Craig

[GPW]

You know , we all had to start out making Foamies with no set instructions or examples and though it wasn’t much different from making a regular trailer , just the basic materials were different and it was all the construction “details” that had to be found out through experience. Every trailer built on the forum here advancing our collective Foamie knowledge … All the “testing” showed what worked and what didn’t … Now I believe we have a good idea of what’s needed , as you can see by the many FINE Foamie trailer examples folks have built here.

Although we’ve been pretty much unrestricted ( no rules ) , I think since everybody’s Foamie builds worked as intended… All the testing pretty much done , maybe it is time to establish some rules for working with foam … What works , and what doesn’t work … ?
I’d guess we need to break it up into categories … Maybe like :

1. Designing the trailer and getting the Foam
2. handling , cutting , bending, gluing
3. assembly techniques
4. Covering
5. Finishing , painting .

If we can come up with a good “outline” we can write the Book …
What do you guys think ?

LC, as we speak ( er type) …. It’s raining …. again …

[John61CT]

+100

I'd be happy to help, not PMF content, but ICT infrastructure-technical / structural-editing

As mentioned before, Wiki is the appropriate medium for the evolving text "drafts", with links back to forum threads here for discussions.

Controversies noted with sub-topic "editorials", all positions acknowledged if not fully documented.

IMO ultimately domain control separate from the forum management to avoid conflict of interest.

[GPW]

As much as we tried Not to make rules over the years , all to encourage free thinking , It seems a lot of people are just looking for some solid directions …
I got an idea , why don’t we ask one of each of us to work on one particular aspect of foamie making , all under the guise of a Super thread with all the information anyone would need to build their own .. But NOT too long to read …
Who wants to take a subject and expound on it … ??? There are some Very Talented people here , time to share that talent with the rest of us …

And naturally we’ll all have to promise , no Pet pictures , no recipes please …

[tomhawk]

...Wiki is the appropriate medium for the evolving text..

I would agree with that. The trouble with a blog format is each post is a draft. They tend to pile up after a while with discussions of 500 lbs of beer, pictures of pets etc. and grow to resemble Tolstoy novels.

A Wiki can have structure and navigation features. A Wiki can be edited to remove repetition and conflicting information. It is hard to deny it has the potential to be very useful.

The trouble with a Wiki is that someone has to be in charge. That said, many folks can work on it but it can still be a concise document.
I think I would not want just anyone to edit it. I would not want to be the person who decided that though. Wikipedia is open to the world and it seems to function. I have edited some entries there and had my contributions removed. Some others are there after several years.

I am also worried about the "Andrew" phenomenon where the person in charge mysteriously vanishes along with the website and all the information.

There are several web sites that provide Wiki hosting for a project such as this one. I would certainly be willing to contribute editing, images etc but I think folks who have actually finished building a trailer should be in charge of this.

Tom

[LostCajun]

You know , we all had to start out making Foamies with no set instructions or examples and though it wasn’t much different from making a regular trailer , just the basic materials were different and it was all the construction “details” that had to be found out through experience. Every trailer built on the forum here advancing our collective Foamie knowledge … All the “testing” showed what worked and what didn’t … Now I believe we have a good idea of what’s needed , as you can see by the many FINE Foamie trailer examples folks have built here.

Although we’ve been pretty much unrestricted ( no rules ) , I think since everybody’s Foamie builds worked as intended… All the testing pretty much done , maybe it is time to establish some rules for working with foam … What works , and what doesn’t work … ?
I’d guess we need to break it up into categories … Maybe like :

1. Designing the trailer and getting the Foam
2. handling , cutting , bending, gluing
3. assembly techniques
4. Covering
5. Finishing , painting .

If we can come up with a good “outline” we can write the Book …
What do you guys think ?

LC, as we speak ( er type) …. It’s raining …. again …

Cool...so I am not losing it? I actually had an idea with merit?

I see a few replies to this idea....I will venture a little more of my idea....

Instead of RULES.....I prefer to think Guidelines....that way....no ONE way is presented as the Only way or the Highway (and I would make that Hyw 90, for best effect)....

So, my thought is a set of Guidelines - per subject.....would be 'helpful'......that one could still pick from.....or at least somewhere.....someone set up a mechanism that will allow consolidation of info....on subject....without cats (cute, but allergic)....I could go for a sub subject of cute cat videos (see even I am guilty....gotta have some fun).....but, I am so frustrated.....all the info is here......I just don't have enough 'life' literally left to 'dig' it out....

Along with the outline of the Guidelines....instead of a total regurgitation of what already exists....just a short 'why' with footnotes of where to go find it...and maybe a mechanism to add to that as more instances are found both in old posts and newly created ones......is that what a wiki would do? I confess I use wiki's all the time.....just haven't thought it through from creation.....I did create databases on AS/400's for a dozen years..and BIG business applications at a handful Fortune 500's that you buy from every day...that is until this old brain got fried....I think I used to be good at it....so, its hard to see that data on building foams exist.....but, I can't figure out how to extract it with the tools at hand.....(and todays search engines are actually working against us....the more we search for the same terms....we get less and less returns....as the search engine 'steers' us toward their individual agendas.....so the more we search for something....the less we find....)

and....I want to start building.....I am losing ground every day.....who knows....I may be past the point of being able to use a camper before I get it finished....but, that isn't the point....for me.....its the journey.. ...I am already.....exactly.....where.....I....am....supposed to be.....

So.....switching gears.....if I can do nothing except read what is already written....I can build a foamy camper on my landscape trailer, or convert my 6x12 cargo trailer.....or start on something totally different....all with the info that is already here....exactly where it sits right now....without a single question asked or answered.....but, again....what is the fun in THAT?

No need me saying, that I would be in favor of anything that would help me find what I am looking for.

and GPW.....its raining over here.....as I type.....

Craig

[John61CT]

I think the domain + content ownership should in practice be shared between 2-3 long-term stable member / contributors.

The monthly cost maybe $20-40, I'd think easily covered by a small ongoing group, set up a PayPal contribution button?

Editing, in the sense of taxonomy, structure, grammar / formatting etc does not need to be done by the content-contributing experts.

ICT support, setting up the web server, installing / updating the software can be yet another, but I could handle these last two together.

I suggest PMWiki.

[GPW]

Guys , don’t ask me , I’m just an Old artist who builds Foamie trailers …. I don’t know ANYTHING about wikis and all that … The reason I suggested a group effort …
We do have a Moderator who can do some editing if needed … Eagle is very nice and understanding …