Fiberglass and resin really stick to foam??

[John61CT]

This subforum is afaict about PMF, I believe not much here on epoxy nor fiberglass.

Poor Man's Fg, cheap canvas + Glidden Gripper and/or Titebond II stuck to foam board.

Usually for small teardrops, total weight maybe 1-2000 wet, often crazy lighter.

Usually starting with a Northern Tool or Harbor Freight as a base, or welding from cheap even scrap angle and an old axle off CL for $50.

In other words, lots of us (I perceive) are intentional escapees from the "costs a lot, looks so polished" school of trailer construction.

Of course there are exceptions, anything goes, all are welcome.

Unfortunately, there is no organized intro / quick overview to the HowTo details (yet / anymore), but when you've got some time 8-) look for the longest oldest threads and start there.

[OP827]

There is really no advantage to epoxy/glass over foam compared to canvas and glue. Having done lots of epoxy/glass (on boats over wood) and now canvas on a foamy trailer, I'd say the canvas is more forgiving.

Could I use canvas and epoxy?

You could, but the canvas would absorb more epoxy ($) comparing to glass cloth. I built with glass and it seems working so far for me. The link in my signature. Atahoekid built with 1 layer 6oz or 10oz glass and said that he would do it again, KC is building with glass and epoxy too. I am interested in objective cost comparison of two methods. I am not convinced that PMF is actually substantially cheaper for time and material than epoxy and glass. Both methods have pro and cons. Epoxy glass gives more rigid and better finish surface than canvas. Canvas are more user friendly and safer to glue, self healing under sun as some reported here. Both surfaces are equally easy to repair. If you decide to build, I would encourage you to do your own testing on scraps and decide what you like more. To prevent de-lamination you can put shallow scores on the surface with a sharp blade and let the epoxy impregnate the scored surface similar to boat's PVC square pre-cut or 3D cut foam. Also painting dark might not be a good idea when building a foamie - the glass or canvas may de-laminate and/or foam soften under the bright sun. Good luck with your build and keep us posted!

[John61CT]

And a 200# frame supporting a 3000# payload?

Def pushing the design envelope there, have you got an engineer involved ?

[jimbo69ny]

And a 200# frame supporting a 3000# payload?

Def pushing the design envelope there, have you got an engineer involved ?

Total weight will be under 2000 lbs. Yes, the trailer frame alone is very light, actually closer to 100 lbs in aluminum.

[OP827]

Does anyone know if I can use canvas and resin instead of fiberglass and resin? I know I will have to add many layers in order to make it strong so maybe some fiberglass, some canvas? I have no idea how canvas interacts with resin.

Speaking of which, how many layers is sufficient?

Don't use epoxy with canvas. You'll use LOTS resin! One layer of 6 to 10 oz canvas with wood glue is enough.

Maybe you don't understand why you are building a foamy in the first place: Cheap, light, and easy. To get that you'll have to tolerate the rougher surface finish that more easily dents (though it will self heal in sun.)

If you want a hard, tough surface, then build with plywood and cover with either aluminum or epoxy/glass.

I spent $15,000 on the battery that will be underneath the teardrop. I spent $700 on an Axle less Timbren suspension. Cheap isnt the top priority. Obviously I need to keep everything in check but lightweight is my top priority. My battery alone weighs 1330 lbs. TImbren is another 100 lbs. Aluminum frame is another 200 lbs. Fiberglass would be a drop in the bucket. lol

If that's the case then you can go with epoxy fiberglass. Two layers of 6 oz should be more than enough. My build is experiment, I did one 6oz layer everywhere except frontal road chips area, but that could also be not needed if a polyurethane bedliner is going to be sprayed there. Epoxy fiberglass allows you to go to a car like finish if you wish, but then prepare to do car like body fairing work and accordingly a primer and paint job.

[jimbo69ny]

Does anyone know if I can use canvas and resin instead of fiberglass and resin? I know I will have to add many layers in order to make it strong so maybe some fiberglass, some canvas? I have no idea how canvas interacts with resin.

Speaking of which, how many layers is sufficient?

Don't use epoxy with canvas. You'll use LOTS resin! One layer of 6 to 10 oz canvas with wood glue is enough.

Maybe you don't understand why you are building a foamy in the first place: Cheap, light, and easy. To get that you'll have to tolerate the rougher surface finish that more easily dents (though it will self heal in sun.)

If you want a hard, tough surface, then build with plywood and cover with either aluminum or epoxy/glass.

I spent $15,000 on the battery that will be underneath the teardrop. I spent $700 on an Axle less Timbren suspension. Cheap isnt the top priority. Obviously I need to keep everything in check but lightweight is my top priority. My battery alone weighs 1330 lbs. TImbren is another 100 lbs. Aluminum frame is another 200 lbs. Fiberglass would be a drop in the bucket. lol

If that's the case then you can go with epoxy fiberglass. Two layers of 6 oz should be more than enough. My build is experiment, I did one 6oz layer everywhere except frontal road chips area, but that could also be not needed if a polyurethane bedliner is going to be sprayed there. Epoxy fiberglass allows you to go to a car like finish, but prepare to do car like body fairing work and accordingly a primer and paint job.

Wow only 2 layers!? Is that really enough strength? What if someone leans against it?

Thank you for your input!!!

[OP827]

Does anyone know if I can use canvas and resin instead of fiberglass and resin? I know I will have to add many layers in order to make it strong so maybe some fiberglass, some canvas? I have no idea how canvas interacts with resin.

Speaking of which, how many layers is sufficient?

Don't use epoxy with canvas. You'll use LOTS resin! One layer of 6 to 10 oz canvas with wood glue is enough.

Maybe you don't understand why you are building a foamy in the first place: Cheap, light, and easy. To get that you'll have to tolerate the rougher surface finish that more easily dents (though it will self heal in sun.)

If you want a hard, tough surface, then build with plywood and cover with either aluminum or epoxy/glass.

I spent $15,000 on the battery that will be underneath the teardrop. I spent $700 on an Axle less Timbren suspension. Cheap isnt the top priority. Obviously I need to keep everything in check but lightweight is my top priority. My battery alone weighs 1330 lbs. TImbren is another 100 lbs. Aluminum frame is another 200 lbs. Fiberglass would be a drop in the bucket. lol

If that's the case then you can go with epoxy fiberglass. Two layers of 6 oz should be more than enough. My build is experiment, I did one 6oz layer everywhere except frontal road chips area, but that could also be not needed if a polyurethane bedliner is going to be sprayed there. Epoxy fiberglass allows you to go to a car like finish, but prepare to do car like body fairing work and accordingly a primer and paint job.

Wow only 2 layers!? Is that really enough strength? What if someone leans against it?

Thank you for your input!!!

Two 6oz layers on top of XPS rigid foam (350 foamular) is comparable to an average car metal body or stronger based on my build experience. Nothing will happen if someone leans on it for sure. Epoxy cures to be stronger with time. You will notice in a few weeks that the surface gets harder than it was two days after an initial cure. each layer of 6 oz is about 0.6-0.7mm thick, so two layers will be thicker than a car body, but will have XPS foam as a continuous support, so consider that too. I am personally not building a trailer to be able to withstand a hammer or brick hit. As long as it is somewhat comparable to a car body, all should be good. Fibreglass will have flexibility too. I had a damage during my build transportation that I repaired by filling up the holes with foam and then glassing it over, similar to PMF, no issues.

[KennethW]

KennethW wrote:
I have build a foamie with canvas and paint. I think it is easier to work with then glass and resin. I feel the canvas and paint (PMF) work better as it is flexible. Fiberglass is hard and if it flex a lot it will develop stress cracks.

DId you use the canvas, wood glue, then paint method?
Yes

I have seen videos about that on youtube. I am worried about the finish. I really want this to look nice.
The finish can be very close to fiberglass(many coats on paint with sanding between coats) but not as shiny(semigloss paint) People have asked me where I bought mine as they thought it was fiberglass on the outside. As you are going for the high end look I think you would be happier with fiberglass.(Harder surface)

How long have you had it?
5 years

I also worry that the paint will break down and flake off over time.
You would have a much greater change of paint flaking off fiberglass(if not done perfect)
The paint embeds in the canvas like resin in glass cloth. Even more so.(it will not flake off). The paint is exterior latex house. A good quality will last a very long time.

What is PMF?
Poor Mans Fiberglass (Glue, Canvas, and Paint)

[tony.latham]

What is PMF? ...Poor Mans Fiberglass

Kenneth:

What did it cost you to use this method on your camper? I'm wondering if this is really a "poor man's" method?

Tony

[jimbo69ny]

What is PMF? ...Poor Mans Fiberglass

Kenneth:

What did it cost you to use this method on your camper? I'm wondering if this is really a "poor man's" method?

Tony

Good question. Id also like to know.

Also, do you have any videos that document your build?

[KennethW]

Kenneth:
What did it cost you to use this method on your camper? I'm wondering if this is really a "poor man's" method?

I used canvas inside and out. The canvas was Carhart brown factory seconds. so I did not paint the inside(I liked the color).
18 yd of 6 foot wide 12 oz(like the stuff in overhauls) at $4.99 a yard from BigDuckCanvas was 89+29 shipping = $118
.................................................................................2 gallons of Titebond II from Menards 18 X 2 = $36
.......................................................5 gallons bucket of miss tint paint from Menards (Used less then 4) $15
.......................................Zinsser® PaperTiger® Scoring Tool. (for roughing up the foam for good adhesion) $7
.............................................................................................................Inside and out Total $ 176
As a stress skin it is part of the wall as I did not use any wood or metal in the walls and only 2 thin metal tubes under the roof.

[tony.latham]

Kenneth:
What did it cost you to use this method on your camper? I'm wondering if this is really a "poor man's" method?

I used canvas inside and out. The canvas was Carhart brown factory seconds. so I did not paint the inside(I liked the color).
18 yd of 6 foot wide 12 oz(like the stuff in overhauls) at $4.99 a yard from BigDuckCanvas was 89+29 shipping = $118
.................................................................................2 gallons of Titebond II from Menards 18 X 2 = $36
.......................................................5 gallons bucket of miss tint paint from Menards (Used less then 4) $15
.......................................Zinsser® PaperTiger® Scoring Tool. (for roughing up the foam for good adhesion) $7
.............................................................................................................Inside and out Total $ 176
As a stress skin it is part of the wall as I did not use any wood or metal in the walls and only 2 thin metal tubes under the roof.

I think $200 is a reasonable goal to fiberglass the outside of a traditionally built (wooden) teardrop. That doesn't cover the UV protection (paint or whatever) or the poly for the inside. I might bounce that estimate off of Dan aka kayakdlk.

That's based on ten yards of 4 oz. cloth and Raka's six-quart resin kit.

T

[GPW]

Well then , if we’re talking about which is more THRIFTY , then consider I did my first foamie trailer with some donated foam , old canvas that somebody gave me ( artist canvas) and we had a gallon of T2 around , plus we used some old House paint we had laying around left over from painting the house …
We always considered a bit of “Salvage” a way of keeping the costs down … Part of the Foamie Code …

Canvas vs, Fiberglass … By all means , use what YOU like, what you’re used to !!! They Both work !!! Having done both over the years ... my Brother had an auto body shop that specialized in FG cars ( corvettes) , and we found fiberglass is expected to have that glass like finish , which is a LOT more work than we like on a simple Foamie trailer … ( JMHO) A Foamie trailer was only ever intended to be a simple affordable camping trailer ,not a cutesy RV, not going to the car show , not built to impress others ( who really don’t care ) , just a “ Hard Tent” … All for Fun … and EVAC for me .
And Five years now out in the weather 100% of the time … and aside from the renovation ( my design error ) the outside is solid and doesn’t leak …

During the renovation and roof modification we found the cutting painted canvas was more like cutting thick Leather ( Tough! ) And all the minor knee bumps we put in it are now gone … Don’t sell canvas short , it’s easy and holds up better than anybody ever thought … I guess that’s why the Old Timers used it for decades , until fiberglass came along as the “new thing” … Your Choice !!!

[jimbo69ny]

Well then , if we’re talking about which is more THRIFTY , then consider I did my first foamie trailer with some donated foam , old canvas that somebody gave me ( artist canvas) and we had a gallon of T2 around , plus we used some old House paint we had laying around left over from painting the house …
We always considered a bit of “Salvage” a way of keeping the costs down … Part of the Foamie Code …

Canvas vs, Fiberglass … By all means , use what YOU like, what you’re used to !!! They Both work !!! Having done both over the years ... my Brother had an auto body shop that specialized in FG cars ( corvettes) , and we found fiberglass is expected to have that glass like finish , which is a LOT more work than we like on a simple Foamie trailer … ( JMHO) A Foamie trailer was only ever intended to be a simple affordable camping trailer ,not a cutesy RV, not going to the car show , not built to impress others ( who really don’t care ) , just a “ Hard Tent” … All for Fun … and EVAC for me .
And Five years now out in the weather 100% of the time … and aside from the renovation ( my design error ) the outside is solid and doesn’t leak …

During the renovation and roof modification we found the cutting painted canvas was more like cutting thick Leather ( Tough! ) And all the minor knee bumps we put in it are now gone … Don’t sell canvas short , it’s easy and holds up better than anybody ever thought … I guess that’s why the Old Timers used it for decades , until fiberglass came along as the “new thing” … Your Choice !!!

Thank you for the info! Do you have any videos or documentation of your build?

Happy thanksgiving everyone!

[GPW]

But … If you go Epoxy and Fiberglass cloth , surface preperation is VERY important , the foam must be sanded dead flat , ( long sanding stick) , and those little holes poked in there with the wallpaper perforator, really can add a lot to the overall skin/to foam strength as they dry hard ( epoxy) and are like little Nails grabbing deep into the foam . And while you’re at it , might as well put a decently Thickness of FG cloth on , because you’ll be sanding a lot of it off to get that Mirror finish . ( ask me how I know ) In order for the finish to be Perfect , everything underneath has to be PERFECT!!! It really does !!! … Paint doesn’t cover anything .. especially little finish imperfections …
Personally , If I wanted shiny , I’d forget the FG cloth and go with that FG board over Foam like Ken W did ^ … I saw that one up close ( I touched it !!! ) and it was really Nice !!! ( and traveled many Thousands of miles too )

Jimbo , check out the FoamStream Thread or my photo album … Sorry , we never did a Build thread or videos , as we spent all our time here convincing the folks it would work in the first place …

Yes , we have a Lot to be Thankful for !!!