The Arboreous Weekender

[kristaology]

Here's a quick question for anyone following. I came across a Marine wood sealer called "Seal-Once" on Amazon. Their website boasts this product as waterproof, eco-friendly, penetrating, breathable, with a UV barrier added to it. And its cheaper than epoxy. Here's the thing....its water based?

https://seal-once.com/marine-premium-wood-sealer/

I want to understand waterproofing more in depth. Can anyone give me any advice on this? I know epoxy is a go-to and is highly trusted when it comes to waterproofing the exterior of a tear, but its SO EXPENSIVE! Educate me, please! Why wouldn't something like this work?

[greygoos]

There are plenty of products on the market that are water based such as spar urethane which some builders use on woodies, some builders use water based house paint for protection. Some guys swear by epoxy, some only will use aluminum or fiberglass. I guess you need to determine what is best for you and how much maintanence you want to do in the future and what your budget is.

[tony.latham]

Here's a quick question for anyone following. I came across a Marine wood sealer called "Seal-Once" on Amazon. Their website boasts this product as waterproof, eco-friendly, penetrating, breathable, with a UV barrier added to it. And its cheaper than epoxy. Here's the thing....its water based?

https://seal-once.com/marine-premium-wood-sealer/

I want to understand waterproofing more in depth. Can anyone give me any advice on this? I know epoxy is a go-to and is highly trusted when it comes to waterproofing the exterior of a tear, but its SO EXPENSIVE! Educate me, please! Why wouldn't something like this work?

I’m suspicious as to their claim of it being both waterproof and breathable. How can that be? Liquid Gore-Tex?

Epoxy isn’t cheap but it does a great job of sealing and plasticizing the surface wood fibers. It still needs a UV barrier.

T


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[kristaology]

Here's a quick question for anyone following. I came across a Marine wood sealer called "Seal-Once" on Amazon. Their website boasts this product as waterproof, eco-friendly, penetrating, breathable, with a UV barrier added to it. And its cheaper than epoxy. Here's the thing....its water based?

https://seal-once.com/marine-premium-wood-sealer/

I want to understand waterproofing more in depth. Can anyone give me any advice on this? I know epoxy is a go-to and is highly trusted when it comes to waterproofing the exterior of a tear, but its SO EXPENSIVE! Educate me, please! Why wouldn't something like this work?

I’m suspicious as to their claim of it being both waterproof and breathable. How can that be? Liquid Gore-Tex?

Epoxy isn’t cheap but it does a great job of sealing and plasticizing the surface wood fibers. It still needs a UV barrier.

T


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I'm not familiar with nano technology, but that seems to be the base on which this company can claim such magic. I'm curious to see if anyone had tried it.

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[Aguyfromohio]

I don't see how breathability is an advantage for coating a camper. The roof vent and windows let moisture out.
When I think through the exit path a water molecule would travel, it starts in your exhaled breath. Then it diffuses through the cabin air volume to the interior wall. Next it would travel through that interior finish; wick through the wall panel; then out through our fancy breathable waterproof finish. You would need awfully good laboratory equipment to detect the trace amount of water that would move slowly through the wall in that process even over days and weeks.

Fully impervious water barriers for walls and roof seem the best approach. Add ventilation to clear away moisture.

[kristaology]

I don't see how breathability is an advantage for coating a camper. The roof vent and windows let moisture out.
When I think through the exit path a water molecule would travel, it starts in your exhaled breath. Then it diffuses through the cabin air volume to the interior wall. Next it would travel through that interior finish; wick through the wall panel; then out through our fancy breathable waterproof finish. You would need awfully good laboratory equipment to detect the trace amount of water that would move slowly through the wall in that process even over days and weeks.

Fully impervious water barriers for walls and roof seem the best approach. Add ventilation to clear away moisture.

I don't think it's intended for making the cabin breathable. The website has details that claim it penetrates the wood like CPES would, but still allows moisture already inside the wood to exit, like the solvent in varnish. Therefore, it should allow the wood to expand and contract as the weather changes. Reviews I have found say it beads water like it should.

The problem I see with raptor liner and hardening sealants is that they don't expand with the wood and they have the possibility of cracking in hot humid weather, which is all we have here in Missouri.

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[Aguyfromohio]

I don't see how breathability is an advantage for coating a camper. The roof vent and windows let moisture out.
When I think through the exit path a water molecule would travel, it starts in your exhaled breath. Then it diffuses through the cabin air volume to the interior wall. Next it would travel through that interior finish; wick through the wall panel; then out through our fancy breathable waterproof finish. You would need awfully good laboratory equipment to detect the trace amount of water that would move slowly through the wall in that process even over days and weeks.

Fully impervious water barriers for walls and roof seem the best approach. Add ventilation to clear away moisture.

I don't think it's intended for making the cabin breathable. The website has details that claim it penetrates the wood like CPES would, but still allows moisture already inside the wood to exit, like the solvent in varnish. Therefore, it should allow the wood to expand and contract as the weather changes. Reviews I have found say it beads water like it should.

The problem I see with raptor liner and hardening sealants is that they don't expand with the wood and they have the possibility of cracking in hot humid weather, which is all we have here in Missouri.

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Those are great points. I'm an old engineer, and I've learned to give traditional solutions a lot of respect, because a good track record over decades is some of the best evidence we can get.
Fine furniture is often finished with varnish, lacquer, paint or shellac. Wooden boats use the same finishes.
Of course it's always possible something new and better has popped up.

We used "the mix" ( polyurethane varnish diluted with mineral spirits) and so far so good, like many others around here.
You will probably be just fine trying the new stuff. Worst case scenario is not that bad, you can always recoat with something else if the new stuff does not work out.
Do yourself a favor and check that the new stuff does not have a silicone chemistry. If you want to recoat later, silicone may prevent anything else from sticking or soaking in.

[kristaology]

Those are great points. I'm an old engineer, and I've learned to give traditional solutions a lot of respect, because a good track record over decades is some of the best evidence we can get.
Fine furniture is often finished with varnish, lacquer, paint or shellac. Wooden boats use the same finishes.
Of course it's always possible something new and better has popped up.

We used "the mix" ( polyurethane varnish diluted with mineral spirits) and so far so good, like many others around here.
You will probably be just fine trying the new stuff. Worst case scenario is not that bad, you can always recoat with something else if the new stuff does not work out.
Do yourself a favor and check that the new stuff does not have a silicone chemistry. If you want to recoat later, silicone may prevent anything else from sticking or soaking in.

I'm the same way. Tried and true are my go-tos. I'm just absolutely terrified of epoxy for a number of reasons (price, application, blushing,...). Still, everyone here is a wealth of knowledge and I would never have even TRIED to take this challenge on without you.
I did check the SDS on the Marine formula and all it lists is a "polymer mixture". Amazon customer questions have been answered by the company and they claim you can varnish over it. I know it eliminates the breathability option, but I suppose if I'm worried, I could apply two or three coats of this and then varnish when its dry.

Thank you everyone!

[tony.latham]

The problem I see with ... hardening sealants is that they don't expand with the wood...

I epoxy the galley floor. (Those Reliance jugs do want to drip at times.*) The goo soaks into the fibers and then turns into plastic/wood matrix.



We get big swings in humidity here. 60% or so when it's raining. Last week it was down to 9%. That surface looks just like it did in 2013. It's had water on it many times. Signed, sealed and delivered.

The wooden boatbuilders? They use epoxy.







Tony

[kristaology]

Got the roof spars in today!! Framed around the Fantastic Fan. Got the galley wall in.
To secure the spars, we kreg jigged one from the inside and screwed an exterior screw in from the outside to avoid spin.
Squared up the galley wall and of course, had to get in to see if we'd fit. Its close but enough. About as big as sleeping in a two person tent.

Can't wait to get the counter in and poly the floor next time. For now, were breaking due to 90+ degree temps.

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[kristaology]

Started working on the hatch and the countertop for the galley. It's slow work, but i want it right the first time.
We're thinking about lining the ceiling of the sleeper with vinyl or laminate flooring. Staple and glue to the spars. But I'm worried about sagging. I'm just looking for a quick, cheap, easy way to cover the insulation in the sleeper, that works with the angles well and that looks good. I know, it's a lot to ask for.

What has everyone used for interior ceiling lining?

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[Graniterich]

Frp glued to the spars,just bent for teardrop shape

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[tony.latham]

Prefinished 1/8" Baltic birch.



Followed by the spars...



Tony

[kristaology]

Got most of the ceiling in today. This is a big step. We wanted something lighter colored to keep the interior from feeling so small. Went with this weathered pine look and we are satisfied with it.





I also purchased a sample of Seal-Once Marine wood waterproofing and Rust-Oleum spar varnish to run some trials on 1/4" mahogany. Mostly to make sure we like the tinting and if there are any adhesion issues.



Jeremiah worked on the sliding mechanism for the galley cooler. We went with a rather large 9-day cooler that had some difficulties fitting under the counter height we needed. So to put the sliding channels on the floor with a board on top of those wasn't working.
Jeremiah came up with a neat idea, but he ran into a little more work than I think he was expecting. He cut channels in the 1/2" floor ply to fit the slide bars down into. Then he slid some 3/4" ply pieces underneath the floor to screw the slide bars into, creating a countersunk slide mechanism.



He cut a 1/2" piece of ply for support on top.

We are having a little trouble getting it to slide well, and are worried about it being able to handle the weight of our cooler. The slides are rated for 100lbs, but there is a lot of resistance when it is extended. We may end up putting a support chain from the wall to the slide board to help pull up the slides when they are extended.
Any advice is welcome.

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[working on it]

...

Jeremiah worked on the sliding mechanism for the galley cooler. We went with a rather large 9-day cooler that had some difficulties fitting under the counter height we needed. So to put the sliding channels on the floor with a board on top of those wasn't working.
Jeremiah came up with a neat idea, but he ran into a little more work than I think he was expecting. He cut channels in the 1/2" floor ply to fit the slide bars down into. Then he slid some 3/4" ply pieces underneath the floor to screw the slide bars into, creating a countersunk slide mechanism.



He cut a 1/2" piece of ply for support on top.

We are having a little trouble getting it to slide well, and are worried about it being able to handle the weight of our cooler. The slides are rated for 100lbs, but there is a lot of resistance when it is extended. We may end up putting a support chain from the wall to the slide board to help pull up the slides when they are extended.
Any advice is welcome.

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* I have an on-board generator mounted on a swiveling slide-out in the galley. I pull it out to the full 21-inches that the (new) Blum slides allow, then turn it (and lock the swivel in place with a pin), so that the exhaust points out safely to the right. However, I previously found that 85 lbs on a triple set of drawer slides I used (100+ lbs rating for the three), at full extension, could be too much weight if additional loading occurs (I accidentally pushed down on it at home). When I replaced the first set with better slides, I also made a hidden support arm that inserts into a slot under it, and there's no problem with extra weight on it. I used leftover hardware to fix the problem, but I also considered just using a simple jackstand, to support it (I have several extra ones in the garage). But, I like modifying/re-purposing stuff, whenever I can.

generator support plan.jpg (140.33 KiB) Viewed 6494 times

* If there's room underneath the cooler slide-table and the slide base, you could use a simple piece of leftover plywood inserted there to help support the weight. That was my first idea, but I had no piece available at the time. I didn't think of the jackstand idea, until later. Here's a link to the thread where I made mine: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59704