Where to start - Want somewhat off road capable teardrop?

[ktm_2000]

Hi All,

Its been quite a few years since I've been on this site. Years ago I built a standie https://photos.app.goo.gl/LvGYhrE7ETUojCwYA on a recycled pop-up camper frame with my wife and we camped with it for a few years until we found a foreclosure vacation home that needed a full gut renovation. Well we've finished the reno and enjoyed that for a few years and now have some wanderlust and want to get back into camping again and maybe in a couple of years go on a month long cross country road trip to see as many national parks as we can.

We've been watching videos on youtube of off-road capable teardrops and really like the looks of both Overkill campers as well as Colorado teardrops.

I'm a sucker for getting myself into a good project and am pretty good at fiberglass and composites work so I would want to make it myself.

Here's some parameters for what we'd like:

1. Same size tires and rim as the tow vehicle - have a tundra on year 9 now, will likely be in a F-150 next year.
2. Off paved road travel capable. I'm from the northeast, go to Northern Maine near Baxter state park, would like to be able to travel on logging roads, don't need serious off road capability.
3. Not too worried about weight - going to tow with full size pickup.
4. Roof rack that could handle a roof top tent, we have kids
5. Be able to sit up (I'm 6'1")
6. at least 25 gallons water storage
7. Like the idea of the 3500# timbren suspension kits

The concept we have right now is a 6' wide that would be like a dinette booth with a couch in front and in back where the backrest could be slid down to fill the gap in the middle to form a full size bed. Ideally we would like to be able to sit up and be able to get dressed before going out

I don't know how to weld so we were thinking of going down the pop-up camper frame route again but don't what could handle bolting/welding on timbren suspension.

Some questions

Here's a pic of the old frame I used https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZEkCXf1btscVDymr5
If I found a similar frame, could I cut the outer frame forward of the current wheel well out to allow a larger wheel?

Would a frame like that handle the timbren suspension?

What brands of pop-up campers have more robust frames?

thanks for your advice in advance

[tony.latham]

Would a frame like that handle the timbren suspension?

Best get the answer from the horse's mouth: http://timbren.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ASR400-1200-2000-Instructions-Rev012215.pdf

The concept we have right now is a 6' wide that would be like a dinette booth with a couch in front and in back where the backrest could be slid down to fill the gap in the middle to form a full size bed.

I've always thought that a six-wide would be cumbersome. We had a four-wide and it's in the past. Five is perfect.



Take a look at how Vistabule does there sit-up bed/couch and table. Youtube it. I always thought a hinged mattress wouldn't very comfortable to sleep on but Bert probably has it figured out.

Ideally we would like to be able to sit up and be able to get dressed before going out

It's normal to not go outside naked! (Except maybe in the dead of night.)



Tony

[ktm_2000]

thanks Tony,

I looked up my old posts and from my first build he base of the floor was 124" x81". I think that is bigger than I want both width wise and length wise, I seem to remember a full size mattress is 75" long and I would like to use 1" thick nida-core as my walls so I'm looking at a width of 78".

the tires I want would require a big wheel well which would have to extend outside the width of the cabin.

[swoody126]

this comment does not take into consideration any internal dimensions/sleeping space just tracking ...

it is based on dimensions taken from my Jeep Wranglers and Cherokee and personal utility trailers

a 4' wide frame will have a track that approximates the TV±

a 5' wide frame will track 1/2 tire width± outside the TV track on both sides

a 6' wide frame will track a full tire width± outside the TV on both sides

serious consideration relating to your intended travel area is suggested

if you consider the width of the TV to include the mirrors then a 5' wide frame trailer would end up approximately the same width as the TV

and a 6' wide frame would only be a 1/2 tire width± wider on both sides

your TV may/could be quite different butt i think you can see where i'm coming from

JUST POINTS TO PONDER...

sw

[ktm_2000]

thank you for that info it makes sense, years ago I had a tacoma and to me it would suck riding the logging roads because the wheel width didn't match the full size trucks which made most of the ruts in the road and I would have to ride with one tire in the rut on one side and the other going over the not frequently used part of the road.

When you do your calculations on width are you considering the wheel well to always be exterior to the body of the camper? In my first build the width was 81" wide, 2" wider than my truck, I could be really close to that if I let part of the wheel well go inside the cabin.

The boxes before the bed frame were the wheel wells, I'm assuming a full size tire would make them much larger/taller
https://photos.app.goo.gl/FYVcsr9E2bW7Qr3N7

are there drawbacks to a more offroad design where the wheel wells are somewhat inside the camper?

[RJ Howell]

are there drawbacks to a more offroad design where the wheel wells are somewhat inside the camper?

I'm designing my build similar to what you thinking of. I have to have the wheels semi-inboard due to width. I'v struggled with axle placement as not to interfere with interior components. I think I'm close enough now to proceed.

This is an earlier shot before I re-located the axle. I used a program to see how far forward was possible. https://mechanicalelements.com/trailer-axle-position/. It helped a lot and was by theory, able to move forward as much as 8" (was hoping for 6").



I've yet to finish design on the lift, yet leaning towards spring arms. I like the simplicity. I'm also doing a test of the foamy construction to learn if and how I could incorporate it. I'm trying to loose 600 lbs in build weight.

My Sleeper cap design:



Progress as of yesterday. Today the roof covering goes on.

[ktm_2000]

interesting design, what type of foam are you messing with?

I'm formulating the idea of a camper for next year's project but right now I'm restoring an old boat and working extensively with nidacore (carbon core company now) it is a plastic honeycomb panel with fiberglass skins on both sides.

here's some pics from a leaning post / livewell combo I'm building, I would build the body of the camper in a similar fashion to what I'm doing now. I would probably layup the panels instead of the pre-made ones. This thread is to figure out how to do the frame.

overall view of what it will look like
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jHpkrrTVGrNJNPq19

panels cut to size, gelcoat removed for glassing
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pP2YpVssP2fbxnFX8

interior glassed, the bonding compound I used mixed with the resin to stain it on one side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RzW6gN9h3KafqTn39

exterior corners rounded off, filled with filler back to square. If I did this on a much larger area, I would glue in strips of foam core instead
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sRegAvcNHgXVYBiv9

corner radiused
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GhLDSEQW8H7xB78y8

corner glassed with 1708 + 1.5oz mat then sanded
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RsA5L37QwphRft5H9

after a single pass of fairing compound
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZLKBrUeqEESa7cjYA

[RJ Howell]

interesting design, what type of foam are you messing with?

I'm formulating the idea of a camper for next year's project but right now I'm restoring an old boat and working extensively with nidacore (carbon core company now) it is a plastic honeycomb panel with fiberglass skins on both sides.

It's XPS foam. The pink stuff from HD. I went with 1 1/2", yet I read most like 2". I wanted a read/understanding on 1 1/2" being I could steel/aluminum stud sideways and fill. Now what I see is good strength/stability (especially as I enforce the seams and cover) without any frame on this cap I'm building. I purposely bend and curved as much as I thought I could to again, stiffen the Foam board just the bit more. I know see that full studding in this sytle of build would actually weaken the foam and will figure out some sort of, how to say it, half stud?? First thought was to halve a piece of 2x3 track and see if I could insert it into the foam easily. Cuts and routing works very nicely and Gorilla Glue has work very well. I figure for the full build I would go 2" and work on 1x1, angle (made from halving the track).

The Jury is still out on the PMF the Foamie builder's are using. It works, yet for my real build, I'm seeing fiberglass and resin. That's mainly due to the lift-top and it not being a box, but two 1/2 boxes..

You may wish to drop in the Foamie section and read about a few of the builds. They've done some interesting stuff. My build is here: http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=71879

My real build will be a twin bed (convert to King) with stove, frig, wet bath and outside kitchen as well. The wheel well will be in the wet bath, yet forward enough that it will not be an obstacle (that was an issue until I used that program). Opposite side is under the sink cabinet.

To obtain the weight reduction (or further it) most of the cabinetry will be foam built. Ya, I like what I'm seeing to the point I will do that. Heck, I'm now debating building my own Frig out of the stuff. It works so well I could go 12v with it, but that's not in stone yet..

Hopefully I see your posts come up and can watch as you continue down the path!

[ktm_2000]

Hi all,

I'm in planning stages of a camper and folks here have recommended going with a 5 wide camper as it tires would run in a similar track to that of a tow vehicle. So here I am asking the followup question... What is the definition a 5 wide?

1. Is it 5 foot wide of the base frame and the wheels / wheel wells are outside of that distance?
or is it
2. Is it 5 foot wide from the outside edge of a wheel to the outside edge of the other wheel?

I agree with the logic of using a 5 wide for tire tracking but I would ideally like to setup a camper to sleep side to side vs front to back and was wondering if I made a camper with the wheels set at a 5 wide width based upon the #1 definition and had a frame which had inset wheel wells where the outside walls outside dimension was somewhere around 6'3" wide. The tires would track similar to the tow vehicle and I would get the width to sleep side to side. From there I would build the interior as a dinette booth with seating both sides.

Here's a crude drawing I put together to describe the concept https://photos.app.goo.gl/EThch6JZejCdncwm7
The darker grey is the frame, the lighter grey is the wheel well, the tan section would be a drop down portion of the floor to allow the possibility of keeping the height down. The kitchen portion would be in back.

[tony.latham]

What is the definition a 5 wide?

The exterior of the cabin is 60".

And speaking of definitions, off-road means several things to different folks.



To me, that two-track is still on-road travel.

the outside walls outside dimension was somewhere around 6'3" wide.

And that width could be a problem depending on how you are planning on building this camper.

T

[ktm_2000]

Thanks Tony,

I would agree with you that our definitions of what is on and off-road vary, I guess the capabilities of what I am looking for though are to be able to keep on going when the paved road ends but not to the extent of rock crawling, I currently have a TRD Tundra factory stock with BF Goodrich KOs. When I go back to a Ford, I will want the equivalent. I have no desire to modify or push the envelope of what a stock full size truck can do but I would like the trailer to be able to go where the truck could towing it.

I know I would need more ground clearance and more robust tires than standard campers to do what I want so I am calling it off road capable. So I'm not sure where the line crosses on your definition of off road camper?

Most of the larger Maine logging roads I want to be able to travel on can handle an 18 wheeler towing a log carrier running on them. Occasionally there are bridges over small streams that are questionable and then there are places where they break off into smaller slot roads that skidder's drag the logs out on. A couple of the places where I go hunting in the fall are the back sides of lakes with no houses for miles and would be awesome boondocking campsites in the summer. I'd be out of my mind if I thought I could get a standard trailer in and out of these locations but they have the standard 2 track you are describing.

When the roads haven't been actively logged on in a few years, they close in fast, rut out and can get rough. I regularly have small tree limbs rubbing against my truck when traveling the roads so I get the idea of your width comment. Based upon the pics of your camper, it would do fine in those conditions, I wouldn't think that I would have a problem if I went up to the width of my truck but would not want to go wider.

I'm looking at the cabing being roughly 75" wide and my truck is 79" wide, What in your experience leads you to believe that having the width wider than 60" would be bad?

[ktm_2000]

btw - I'm into photography and someday would love to be able to take the shots you are putting in your posts.

[tony.latham]

What in your experience leads you to believe that having the width wider than 60" would be bad?

Because, like many builders, I use Baltic birch plywood for the headliner and roof. It comes in 5'x5' sheets.

And in the past, I've sheathed with aluminum that is limited to 4' or 5' wide sheets. With this current build, everything is fiberglassed. If it was wider than 60", I would have had to add a seam to the roof.

T

[ktm_2000]

That makes perfect sense as I would guess putting seams in aluminum skins is not all easy and if you didn't alternatives would dramatically increase your project cost.

I'm planning my build the exterior out of 1" thick nidacore a plastic honeycomb which needs fiberglass skins added to each side, it comes in 4x8 sheets. I'm hoping to avoid waste by making the larger side panels by butting up raw core then glassing over the joined pieces effectively turning them into one piece as the strength is in the skins.

My design proposed will waste quite a bit. I'm hoping that I can use a lot of the cut-off portions as interior partitions or cut the excess strips off before glassing each side and butt the raw honeycomb core up together and make an extra panel.

[saywhatthat]

Why are you using 1" thick nidacore a plastic honeycomb are you getting a great deal?