poormans fiberglass overfoam prime or no

[John61CT]

Yes the question was if just choosing random unknown materials without testing

[GPW]

Hate to mention this at this point , but just regular “Oops" paint will suffice for Glue ,primer , and final finish … Tried it … It's gotta’ be a Good exterior paint ( semi Gloss seems to work best so far , easier to find cheap ) …
Artists have an old saying “ when in doubt , leave it out ! “ No primer no glue , no worries …

[John61CT]

Interesting, I would've thought plain paint would have trouble adhering.

Is this to a raw foam surface or the aluminum or whatever coating often found with some types?

[GPW]

When in doubt ….. TEST !!!

[aclarkc]

Funny we should be talking about primer and then I was in need of primer today for #3. I was just going to purchase some generic low cost primer, but I saw some Valspar Bonding primer https://www.lowes.com/pd/Valspar-Interi ... 1000381269. What caught my eye was it mentioned good for coating over glass and ceramic. I remembered that Gripper also mentioned it was good for coating glass. Well it cost a bit more, about $5.00 per gallon, but I though I would try it. So my first impression is that I think it is better than Gripper. Poured out more like pancake batter! I was thinking it was going to take a lot to coat the sides and roof of #3, but it only took 1/4 of a gallon! I mean covered. No pink showing. So it cost a bit more, but I think it goes twice as far for coating saving money in the long run.

Curious how this product has worked for you since this post. Planning to pick some up for some experimenting this weekend when I build my tongue box. Figured i'd get my feet wet with that before applying to walls

[ghcoe]

Funny we should be talking about primer and then I was in need of primer today for #3. I was just going to purchase some generic low cost primer, but I saw some Valspar Bonding primer https://www.lowes.com/pd/Valspar-Interi ... 1000381269. What caught my eye was it mentioned good for coating over glass and ceramic. I remembered that Gripper also mentioned it was good for coating glass. Well it cost a bit more, about $5.00 per gallon, but I though I would try it. So my first impression is that I think it is better than Gripper. Poured out more like pancake batter! I was thinking it was going to take a lot to coat the sides and roof of #3, but it only took 1/4 of a gallon! I mean covered. No pink showing. So it cost a bit more, but I think it goes twice as far for coating saving money in the long run.

Curious how this product has worked for you since this post. Planning to pick some up for some experimenting this weekend when I build my tongue box. Figured i'd get my feet wet with that before applying to walls

It worked great for my application. Goes on nicely with a roller and covers well. If it will stick to glass it usually has good adhesive qualities.

[GPW]

Finally , a Gripper replacement …

[tony.latham]

Finally , a Gripper replacement …

Be careful with that stuff:

"Flush contaminated skin with plenty of water. Continue to rinse for at least 10 minutes. Get medical attention."

Here's the MSDS: https://paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=VALCONS&lang=2&cntry=US&doctype=SDS&prodno=080047451485



Tony

[GPW]

Unfortunately , most paints are harmful in some kind of way … Best always read the label … As a professional Artist for 50 years , I tell people that’s why our brushes have such long handles …

[aclarkc]

Funny we should be talking about primer and then I was in need of primer today for #3. I was just going to purchase some generic low cost primer, but I saw some Valspar Bonding primer https://www.lowes.com/pd/Valspar-Interi ... 1000381269. What caught my eye was it mentioned good for coating over glass and ceramic. I remembered that Gripper also mentioned it was good for coating glass. Well it cost a bit more, about $5.00 per gallon, but I though I would try it. So my first impression is that I think it is better than Gripper. Poured out more like pancake batter! I was thinking it was going to take a lot to coat the sides and roof of #3, but it only took 1/4 of a gallon! I mean covered. No pink showing. So it cost a bit more, but I think it goes twice as far for coating saving money in the long run.

Curious how this product has worked for you since this post. Planning to pick some up for some experimenting this weekend when I build my tongue box. Figured i'd get my feet wet with that before applying to walls

It worked great for my application. Goes on nicely with a roller and covers well. If it will stick to glass it usually has good adhesive qualities.

Thanks for the update! Sounds like good stuff.

[tomhawk]

I ran a brief test on Valspar bonding primer. This has been proposed to be a useful replacement for Glidden Gripper that is no longer available. I know someone objected to this product due to its scary MSDS.
Having misspent much of my youth working with cyanide, formaldehyde, various biohazards, and various radioactive-isotopes, I know that PPE is my friend. Visiting the grocery store today, I wish others felt that way.

I painted a fragment of pink foam with the Valspar primer and applied some also to some canvas and pressed it into place as shown in panel A in this photo:



After drying for 24 hr, I glued more pieces of canvas to the dried primer with Valspar (panel B) or TBII (panel C) below.



After drying for another 24 hr, the glued strips were ripped off to test adherence to the foam. In both panels A and B the glue remained adhered to the foam since the failure showed foam at the fracture surface. In contrast, the TBII adhered poorly to the dried primer. I thought maybe this bonding could be improved by sanding the primer surface. I reglued the canvas to the sanded primer surface using TBII again. It still failed to adhere to the primer well (panel C).

I have never been able to lay my hands on Gripper so I cannot compare with the Valspar primer. I conclude that
the Valspar primer binds very well to foam and it binds to dry primer very well also.
I am concerned that TBII adheres very poorly to foam primed with Valspar, much less than it does to unprimed foam.

Is this a feature of Valspar or am I doing something wrong here?

It would seem that Valspar bonding primer should not be used as an undercoat if TBII will be used to adhere canvas.

[tony.latham]

I know someone objected to this product due to its scary MSDS.

I think you may be referring to me with this statement:

Be careful with that stuff.

I wasn't objecting, just warning.

I think Glidden Gripper went off the market because that stuff was extra hazardous and yet it seemed to be marketed as a DIY product. That's why I was curious about this stuff.

As builders, we need to think beyond our fingers when it comes to shop safety.


Tony

[ghcoe]

Not sure. I used the Valspar Bonding Primer and the TBII seemed to bond well to it. This is a picture of canvas being peeled off before making a window opening larger. I could not tell you the dry times though. You can tell that the TBII bonded to the primer enough to peel the primer off the foam, and the primer was bonded to the foam enough to peel a skin off of it. I wonder if diluting the TBII 50/50 might make a difference? I also use a roller to press the canvas into the glue. Good testing. George.

DSCF6262s.jpg (501.98 KiB) Viewed 3064 times

[tomhawk]

I had planned to try diluting the TBII and reattaching. However when I ripped off the rest of the canvas this is what I saw.



The portion marked 24hr was what I had seen when I ripped a portion of the canvas yesterday. The portion marked 48hr is what was produced ripping more of the canvas off today.

24 hr more had passed since I looked before. The canvas attachment to the primer seems to have improved as time passed. I presume the the TBII bonding process gets better over an extended time.

Perhaps another conclusion might be that one should not put the canvas, newly glued by TBII to primed foam, under stress for at least 48 hr.

George, did you wipe the primed foam with isopropanol before gluing? That might be another variable.

Thanks,
Tom

[ghcoe]

George, did you wipe the primed foam with isopropanol before gluing? That might be another variable.

Thanks,
Tom

No. I just wipe the foam down before priming.

The TBII might not be totally dry in 24 hours and could take a few days if not a week or so for a full cure. You have to think that the glue is sandwiched between foam, which does not breath and wet/damp canvas, which might feel dry on top, but is not at the glue line.