Power Stations aka Solar Generators

[Toytaco2]

I've been doing some research on these things made by Jackery and others. Most seem to be Lithium Ion based batteries, although at least one company (Beaudens) makes one that uses a LiFePO4 Battery. They come in various output models and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with them or specific recommendations.

I'm asking this question because I need to do something about a new battery for the TD. My electric needs are minimal as I use the "super simple" system described elsewhere here in the forum for 110V. For my 12 volt I had a 90 amp hour deep cycle attached to a C-Tech smart charger that lasted about 8 years. The C-Tech charger also has a 12 volt "Power Supply Mode". I have a Fantastic Fan that I have probably used less than 2 hours over the past 10 years. Otherwise, my only needs are for the 2 LED dome lights, 2 LED porch lights and the older 12 volt florescent in the galley. That's not much electrical usage at all - I figure no more than about 4 amps per day even if I did happen to use the fan for a few minutes at bedtime (if my thinking is correct). For the past two years I've made do by simply hooking up one other those Jump Starter things (LA battery), which has now died.

So now looking at one of these new Power Station things to power things and have a few questions/comments:
1. Sounds like these devices might have an "Auto Off" feature which could be a bit of a problem when wanting to turn on the lights in the middle of the night depending on where the unit is located (I'm thinking the tongue box where the battery has been located in the past). Anyone here have any experience with these devices who could comment on how this really works.
2. Can all, or, most of the battery reserve be depleted with these units without harming the battery as would occur with lead acid batteries (which, generally, should not be depleted beyond 50% depth of charge).
3. These units also charge phones, tablets, cameras, and can be charged by the tow vehicle while on the road, so that is all a plus.
4. Should I forget the whole idea and just buy another deep cycle battery and accept the worry of constantly maintaining it?

This forum has always been a great source of trailer and camping info, so, I would love to hear anyone's comments or thoughts. I definitely want to keep it as simple as possible. I like to camp, not fiddle with the equipment!

[saltydawg]

okay my feelings, on solar generators. I hate the term, its wrong on all parts.

For a tear drop they maybe perfect except the size and the inverter. Some are lifepo4 batteries so the discharge does not matter, run em down until they shut off and they dont care, just dont charge em below freezing. The issues are your paying for an inverter you may not use, or is bigger than you need. Your paying for all the usbs and stuff you dont need, esp if you are putting in say a tongue box, you would need to put your phone up there to charge because it wont fit in a normal teardrop.

The bluetti ac100 may be perfect for a tear drop if it was not for the size.
the bluetti ac 50 is a better size but is getting a little small for battery size, unless you use very little power. You say you do use very little and the ac 50 is basically the same useful capacity as what your 90ah lead batter had.

Still has an issue of where all the ports are, you pretty much need to keep it inside, or charge your phone where ever you keep it.

They do make more sense if you have a solar panel as they have a mppt solar charger in them.

read the thread below look for my post, you could use your charger you have but you dont want to leave it connected all the time. lifepo4 dont need a float charge, and if they due you want a 13.6 volt one. They dont really need an absorbtion stage either, the bulk charge is all they really need.

http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=73032

you might be able to get by with the 30 ah battery which is about a 60ah lead battery for capacity. its also under 200 bucks
https://ampedoutdoors.com/collections/l ... and-weight

[rmclarke]

Hi toytaco2,
Your power needs sound a lot like ours...pretty minimal, we probably don't use more than 4ah a day also...I'm working/planning on a new build so I looked at similar ways to fulfill our needs without personally overdoing it.....so, I decide to build one of those portable battery boxes (you can see tons of different ones on Youtube).....had some stuff lying around and I picked up the rest on Amazon and I got a 35ah battery from HFreight ($58 with a 20% off coupon)... I spent less than $100.


It has a battery cutoff switch, a usb/voltmeter w/off on switch, two regular battery termials w/wing nuts, a 12v cigarette type plug in and an SAE in and out plug. It's pretty lightweight about 25#, very portable (you could take it on a picnic and charge your phone or whatever), I can move it around with my solar panel if need be and charge it with my 4amp smart battery charger/maintainer when I have power.

I haven't used it on a camp out yet, but since I can draw out about 17ah per day (and our needs are about 1/3 of that) I think this will be more than adequate for our needs.....(your mileage may vary)

cheers,
Richard

[Toytaco2]

Both these replies are great and exactly the kind of info I was hoping for.

Saltydawg: For what it’s worth, I don’t like the term “solar generator” either. Your reply has soured me a bit on the idea of using one. But, I hadn’t really given the idea of a Lifepo4 battery any thought. I think even the 18 AH unit could be plenty for my needs and I like the light weight. I didn’t envision chargers being available for $20 either. Can that be right? My C-Tech smart charger was $115! The deal breaker looks to be temperature for charging and usage. I use the TD during deer hunting trips in western Oklahoma and always below freezing at night. One trip we had 8 inches of snow and 4 days of 15 degrees. Can Lifepo4 batteries perform in this weather? Sounds like a solar panel would be a non starter for sure under these conditions.

Rmclarke: Great info. I actually was considering that HF battery you mention. What is your opinion of it so far? I have a battery box within my tongue box and am going to see how I might incorporate your “box ideas” into it if I go the lead acid battery route.

No matter what, I’m pretty sure my previous 90AH, 50lb battery I had will be replaced with something half that weight or less. What I had was over kill for my needs.

Thanks for the reply’s.

[saltydawg]

I didn’t envision chargers being available for $20 either. Can that be right? My C-Tech smart charger was $115! The deal breaker looks to be temperature for charging and usage.

One of the best chargers is the victron and for the iirc 13 amp is 121, the 7 am is less.

Discharge in the cold is not an issue, only charging is. But if you have any sort of heat in the camper have the battery inside. One thing is they dont loose capacity like lead does in the cold, they do lose it but not as bad. The other option is get the 30 ah, yes it maybe more than you need but if it gets you 4 days, on day 4 put it in the tow vehicle and start the tow vehicle and warm the battery up for 20 mins or until it is warm to the touch. Then use the 13 amp victron charger on a cheap inverter to charge the battery in less than 2 hours. If you truely only use 4 amps a day you will get a week out of the battery, or charge it every 3 days in an hour and never run out. btw get the battery meter I listed below its a fuel gauge for your battery, can see whether charging, draining and will tell you how much is left.

13 amp charger
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TM ... UTF8&psc=1

meter
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CT ... UTF8&psc=1

[Toytaco2]

OK, I hate to ask a stupid question here, but, I have to. Are we saying to run the tow vehicle for the 20 minute warm up time plus another 2 hours to charge on the inverter? Do we just let the vehicle idle for that long, or, drive it while the battery charges. I’m hoping I’m really misunderstanding something here as I don’t want to fuss this much with a battery.


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[Toytaco2]

I have to say the 4 day 15 degree scenario is by far the most extreme I’ve encountered. Most hunting trips only involve a couple of nights out with night lows of about 22 to 30 degrees and daytime highs in the mid 40's. Seems those trips could work fine for the Lifepo4 battery.

We have a trip planned for the end of October with 2 nights out in each of 2 different Oklahoma state parks with shore power available plus 2 final nights in a National Recreation Area with no power at all available. The Lifepo4 would be perfect in that scenario. I have plenty to think about before that trip. Afterward, we enter the hunting season and more cold weather considerations begin.

As always, thanks so much for the helpful info.


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[saltydawg]

OK, I hate to ask a stupid question here, but, I have to. Are we saying to run the tow vehicle for the 20 minute warm up time plus another 2 hours to charge on the inverter? Do we just let the vehicle idle for that long, or, drive it while the battery charges. I’m hoping I’m really misunderstanding something here as I don’t want to fuss this much with a battery.


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Yes you could drive and charge, the one issue and its not a bad one is lifepo4 batteries will accept massive charge rates. The alternator will happily give its all to charge the battery, until it dies trying. Most alternators can supply 60 to 100amps but its for short times. If the battery trys to consume all of the alternators out put for too long it kills the alt. You need a dc to dc charger, they they can be very very expensive for what they are like north of 200 bucks.

Using the cheap 50 buck inverter and the charger you would own already is a lot cheaper.Yes more hassle but a lot cheaper.

Thats why I say buy the 30 ah that will give you plenty of days of power,just realize that if the trip goes way longer charging in the cold is a minor but fixable problem

[RJ Howell]

I run a DC/DC system and love it! But I also do not stay put more than 3 days (4 days is max on my battery). To get a good charge, you have to be driving, not just idling.. I've run this summer with AC, wipers, lights, radio, while still charging cell phones and had no issues with re-charging the house battery. I do have a 150a alternator though. I'm in for $220 total, DC/DC unit and wire (self install) and I get 20a an hour from it. Compare that to 250-270 watts of solar with wire...

[Toytaco2]

OK, I've been researching LifePo4 batteries for a few days and I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the 30AH model that was suggested, although I still think the 18AH would be enough for my needs. For the small difference in size & weight vs. the increased capacity, I think the 30AH just makes more since.

Just to be clear, am I correct that virtually all of the rated amp hours are available to be used with these LifePo4 batteries, unlike the lead acid batteries that should only be discharged 50%? Do we just run them down without worry that the battery will be damaged? Also, can the 30AH LifePo4 battery be used in combination with a cheap Walmart 400watt inverter to charge cell phones and other USB devices. Could it also be charged using the AC outlet on that same cheap inverter (plugging in a compatible battery charger connected to the LifePo4) while driving the vehicle without damage to the vehicle's battery or the LifePo4 battery being charged?

Sorry if these are silly questions, but, electrical is my worst thing! I'd rather be safe (silly questions) than very sorry later because I didn't ask.

As always, thanks for the great help this forum has been over the years.

Mike

[saltydawg]

OK, I've been researching LifePo4 batteries for a few days and I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the 30AH model that was suggested, although I still think the 18AH would be enough for my needs. For the small difference in size & weight vs. the increased capacity, I think the 30AH just makes more since.

Just to be clear, am I correct that virtually all of the rated amp hours are available to be used with these LifePo4 batteries, unlike the lead acid batteries that should only be discharged 50%? Do we just run them down without worry that the battery will be damaged? Also, can the 30AH LifePo4 battery be used in combination with a cheap Walmart 400watt inverter to charge cell phones and other USB devices. Could it also be charged using the AC outlet on that same cheap inverter (plugging in a compatible battery charger connected to the LifePo4) while driving the vehicle without damage to the vehicle's battery or the LifePo4 battery being charged?

Sorry if these are silly questions, but, electrical is my worst thing! I'd rather be safe (silly questions) than very sorry later because I didn't ask.

As always, thanks for the great help this forum has been over the years.

Mike

Yes you can use all the rated capacity, the battery will shut it self off at 10 volts. Below that it would damage it but thats why it shuts then self off. You will extend its life span from 2000 to 5000 cycles if you dont take it down to its shut off all the time. Thats one reason to get the 30, give more room.

Yes it will power the cheap inverter like no tomorrow, I have run my 1000 inverter powering a 500 watt quartz work light for an hour and twenty mins before it shuts off. So it will run a 400 with out an issue.

Yes you should be able to use the same inverter to run the charger from the TV. Just remember cig lighters are limited to about 150 watts or you will blow the fuse. If the charger is 10 amps or less it should be fine. or connect to the TV battery direct. My big BUT is I dont know how a cheap inverter would run the charger, but I would say a pure sign inverter would be fine.

As for charging phones, dont use an inverter. Use a usb converter that plugs in a lighter plug you wire in the teardrop, or even better an actual usb port. As the inverter has about a 10 to 20 % loss. meaning if you tried to charge a phone that took 1 amp hour to charge you would use 1.2 aqmp hours out of the battery. buy the below usb power point or any one you want and use it.

https://www.amazon.com/WYMECT-Charger-S ... 203&sr=8-1

[bdosborn]

I made a solar generator using LiFePo4 cells:




http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=71943&hilit=solar+generator

While it has a lot of capacity for its size, I don't think I would build another one. I'd probably go with a Jackery or the equivalent. I didn't save that much money and there's a lot to to learn if you've never put a Lithium battery together before.

Bruce

[TimC]

Check out Cosmo Weem's on youtube for a recent comparison of A LOT of Jackery units from small to large.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiiaB-mjKns

[saltydawg]

I agree about the jackerys and similar, they are a nice unit. But Where I think they are not right for most teardrops is they size the inverter to the unit, ie you buy one with a 100 ah battery they come with a 1000 watt inverter, the 50 ah comes with a 500 watt inverter. That means your paying for an inverter that you either dont need or is way bigger than you need in a tear drop. Which also makes then physically bigger than you need. The last thing is a problem with all combined type equipment is that as soon as one part falls the whole thing is trash. Also I think a lot of the smaller ones use 18650's for batteries and I dont like them as much as lifepo4.

If you could get a one with a 50 ah battery and say a 150 watt inverter with an easy interface to the tear drop lighting and power they would be great. Other wise its cheaper and less risk of parts failure to buy a battery, a separate charger and a simple fuse block.

Lets face it the "solar generators" are designed for people to sit them in the corner until the power goes off to keep their fridge and tv on. or maybe hall them to go tail gating. not for more serious use.

[Toytaco2]

I just received the Amped Outdoors 30AH LifePo4 battery that was suggested above. I got it bundled with the cheap charger recommended by the seller since it worked out to only $15. I’ll probably pick up a nicer charger and the battery gauge suggested earlier in this thread. But for now, I’m back in business and I love the fact that this battery weighs less than 7lbs and there’s no need to fuss with a 50lb LA battery with their finicky charging requirements. Thanks for all the help and advice this forum provides.


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